Coronovirus Mortgage and Real Estate Crisis of 2020- NOT !

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S

Smile Back Leap of Faith

Guest
Isis,
Belligerant, i have to check the meaning and found to be synonymous to cruel, turbulent & constant fight. It may seem difficult, but I think these "tough roads of constant struggles" made you strong and skillful, you can use later on- we call wisdom. Not everyone got a chance to hone their skills, as you do and this forum, your support group. In fairness to Moe, Erick and others who kept this forums for almost 13 years ( as I read Moe in his 1st forum); this empowered everyone, and kept them afloat till now. I'm sure we all are grateful for whatever benefits you got, and solutions for us and to help US economic recovery.

I wish I was well then & found this site early enough. Im ok, though. Given my recent 10-yr of losses and hardships, it opened my eyes, for values such as family, hope and well-being (being at peace with yourself and world around you) are more important to achieve. It's enriching to stay on the ground & empowering to embrace losses/pains and transcend me to a much more meaningful life. I only hope that I can bring forth wisdom, I gained to share and prevent others from sufferings.

I can relate about survival as "fricking belligerence". I went thru that, but worse, despite having a family, I did not have the guts or too tired to fight, multiple stressors took an extreme toll on my health. It was too debilitating that I failed to face my problems head on, and caused me to a downturn spiral. Pardon me but I can't elaborate further. I'm still in recovery. I only mentioned this part, to give you sense of gratitude, hope you are in the right place being here. BTW, I read your issue about recorded documents disappearing from County Recorders office, so I ordered 2006-2013; will let you know when i get it......

Chase 2--- Oh no---I'm not "smart to organize". I just came a " hell" part of this earth ( if there's such a place, which I'm sure no one will ever want to). I got lots to catch up from my health, family, career and financial tragedy. Being a homeowner, I lost my first home in 80"s, my second multi-unit home within 6 months in the 90's, two investment properties in Great Recession in 2012. Now, after maintaining payment of my 1st loan, 2nd Lien (part purchase loan in 2006) threatening to foreclose if I don't pay 200% Balance- when i spoke to their lawyers months ago. Then this coronavirus got us some health scare, given my pre-existing conditions, got me infected and totally changed us 360 degrees. Health is truly our wealth. What Moe said resonates with me, when he advised " Wait, and/or do what you think is "best for your family and sanity". Totally true. Thanks
 
S

Smile Back Leap of Faith

Guest
Thanks Isis for the CA Civil Code 15 11. i was reading some blogs from diff law offices. It seems this interpretation of "irresistible superhuman cause" has same legal meaning as "act of God". It says also that "what qualifies as act of God varies by state... and whether these definitions encompass pandemics or epidemics is uncertain. The last epidemics was 1918. While Coronavirus considered "irresistible" disease to be an act of God, not all disease are treated equally." lets be cautious.

According to the article by stubbsalderton.com, if performance be excused when contract has no Force Majeure clause- --"Supreme Court in North Dakota said pandemic was an act of God and compulsory closing of business and quarantine was direct result of an act of God. As a result, the employer who did not pay its employees during this time was excused from performance, i.e. payroll. However SC of Illinois reached the opposite conclusion. Closure of business was NOT an act of God bec the employer knew govt agencies had authority to shutdown, and thus employer should have included a provision in the contract excusing performance in event of shutdown". Given this, maybe we should tell our servicer to add this provision before we take any forbearance benefit. This shouldn't be a problem if investors have good faith(??), sounds familiar?

This blog said we need to review the terms of contract, if pandemics, endemics or shutdowns are referred to as an excuse. Then we have to check if its impossible, due to Coronavirus and govt restrictions, that we can use Code 1511, to not perform contractual obligations. You are right, Isis. Proper application of the law is a challenge, with all these uncertainties.

I wonder why mortgage servicer would make a guideline that forbearance will affect previously modified loans. Their lawyers must have searched about this Code, and made this advance warning as defensive measure, to protect them form any future litigations, "cherry picking" of homeowners w/ equity to foreclose. The banks have taken the past 10 years to prepare for this. Unlike 2008, Feds is focusing on health crisis. Unless we understand the urgency to make Congress & Senate prioritize this housing crisis, boiling underneath, like an active volcano, ready to erupt; it's economic disaster. What do you guys think?

One lesson to share with you is not to be complacent. This may seem ok, with feds pumping trillions to businesses and some loose change to us with these stimulus. But listen and listen well. Something here isn't right. i have never seen cars lining up for food. Such disparity between the rich and the poor. There used to be middle Americans, who, like you and me, are well off, just doing the right things. Now its between billionaire and the poor. Since 2008 GR, we got strapped with cash, decimated retirements, ppl working past 70's, more homeless in dire situations camping just next door, is that right? 140,000 died mostly from community housing set up. Foreclosure is looming, again and worse. I hope this gives us sense of empathy and set aside our differences, allow our leaders in this forum to set the gps and direct us to our best next actions to take. Thanks
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
"i have never seen cars lining up for food."

We were discussing in our family about how sad and surprisingly fast this happened. I don't remember exactly how fast, but it seemed to be within the first week or two of 'the shutdown'.

Each of those cars lining up for food had a different reason for being there so quickly. Its no doubt a heartbreaking story for most of them.

However, we did notice that many of those vehicles looked like they were just driven off the showroom floor at the dealership.....
 
S

Smile Back Leap of Faith.

Guest
Chase 2.,
I was referring to 4/9/20 article. “We just can’t feed this many”. San Antonio Food bank when. “ 6,000 households for Thursday food distribution ... but thousands more showed up, hoping to put something on their table.” These are actual care organized well by FoodBan so ppl can get their supplies . These were even featured in CNN and even CNBC ( normally features stocks, finances). These series were featured prior to 40 Millions unemployed ppl as of 5/28/20 . who applied UI.
For me, this is insane and inhuman, to not have the freedom to buy your own food and forced to go to these long lines to have anything to eat.


Today, an article by Jordan Weisson @ Monebox. “Economy is Going to Hit an Iceberg in 10 Days”.
As what Dr Fauci said , COVID is your worst nightmare and perfect storm “. Whatever that means , i think warning all to be prepared Thanks

Isis, MT, Wanda, Krafty and others at Bagels,
I feel for your struggles. I just read 1- 140 & skipped to 420- 443. I applaud all your strengths and salute to your courage. You all are fighters and I’m saddened that I only found this site now. I can resonate to most if not all as I experienced being foreclosed on run around and losses.

you all inspire me and hope I can be if help now.
I’m sorry but I still can’t log on , due to my own fault- can’t find password I used - I just want to follow up Notice of assignments ordered 7/11/
1) 4/11 Assignment to BAC.
2) . 02/12 Assignment to BANA
3). 4/13 Assignment to BONYM
4). 2013 assignment to Nationstar.
I check today and they only processed now so next week despite paying next day shipping. Thanks.
 
S

Smile Back

Guest
“ The Government is Walking Blind into Corona virus HoUsing Crisis” by Alexis Goldstein 7/13/20. It’s pretty difficult to understand but maybe you guys can - just sharing - hope it helps. Thanks.
 

Moe Bedard

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Delinquent mortgages spike to the highest level in 21 years as COVID-19 stress freezes payments


More homeowners are having trouble making their mortgage payments on time, according to data from CoreLogic.

As of April, the portion of mortgages that changed from on time to 30 days past due spiked to 3.4%, representing the highest reading in at least 21 years, according to CoreLogic.

The 3.4% reading is more than 50% higher than 2008's peak of 2.0%, signaling that more Americans have been negatively affected by the economic damage caused by the COVID-19 pandemic than they were by the great financial crisis.


 

Moe Bedard

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Commercial Mortgage Delinquencies Near Record Levels


Delinquency rates across commercial properties have shot up faster than at any other time.

As thousands of restaurants, hotels, and local businesses in the U.S. struggle to stay open, delinquency rates across commercial mortgage-backed securities (CMBS)—fixed income investments backed by a pool of commercial mortgages— have tripled in three months to 10.32%.

In just a few months, delinquency rates have already effectively reached their 2012 peaks. To put this in perspective, consider that it took well over two years for mortgage delinquency rates to reach the same historic levels in the aftermath of the housing crisis of 2009.

Delinquency_rate_rising_V2-1.jpg

 

smileback1953

LoanSafe Member
Dec 6, 2019
6
1
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IT"S TIME to UNITE=MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL RESOLUTIONS for Homeowners & investors and Prevent Financial COLLAPSE

Sorry Moe, i'd like to create a new thread to but my email account still pending administration, so pardon me for putting my ideas here. There's an urgency of this issue with WORSENING HEALTH CRISIS, STOCKS UNCERTAINTIES AND RE MARKET, given the 30 M Homeowners & 40 Million tenants in default. By now we know, properly "doctored" documents, which Banks (Goliaths) legal teams have strategized their defense, ready to crush every little "David's" who will attempt to fight and delay foreclosure process. or seek any loan modification, without intervention of Congress/Senate

46 M Defaulted loan on forbearance AGAIN WORSE than 2008. We know what will happen next as most you and I endured. This foreclosure is coming like the worst volcanic eruption, no one anticipated, something unfathomable, we didn't expect.

I believe Corona virus came with a purpose for me -so God will not allow to negotiate with terrorist, who claimed to own my "silent 2nd." ( which should have been extinguished, forgiven ), which bank has been credited from "Retribution funds. Maybe God wants me to join your crusade to tell congress/Senate and legislators, what will help homeowners keep their homes, with mutual benefits to banks. This time we will demand true accountability by Wall street aas well as the homeowners.

To start the ball rolling. I created 8 categories of Homeowners an maybe easier to gather facts based on situations.

1. Primary Res bought 2006= has 1 or two loans both, still pending resolution. Represented by Lawyer. NO NOTS.
2. Primary Res bought 2006 has 1 or 2 loans , both still pending resolution. Pro se representation . No NOTS

3. Primary Res bought before/after2006, with 1 or 2 loans, pending resolution; Represented by Atty No NOTS
4. Primary Res bought before/after 2006, w/ 2nd "silent" loan--w/ trial or perm mod but incomplete . No NOTS

5. Primary Res bought before/after 2006 w/ 2nd "silent" loan --w/trial/perm mod but incomplete. W/ Sale Date When _______
6. Comm/ Res bought before/after 2006 w/ 1 or 2nd silent - w/ trial/perm mod - Auctioned When : ---------- Why ___________

7. Commercial bought before/after 2006 w/ 1 for 2 loans pending mod or resolution . Represented ny lawyer No NOTS
8. Commercial bought before/after 2006 w/ 1 or 2 silent loans pending mod or resolution. Pro se Rep. NO NOTS

From here, maybe we get a good count as to how many have been modified, s till pending, w/mod but incomplete w/ silent loan, lost or auctioned. Maybe there was wrongdoing and that can still be reinstate. IDK but this may facilitate accurate data as to how many loans were really modified, or not, and needing assistance to keep their homes. This could be a long shot as you may think but whoever we want to appeal to and voice our cause, there must be some honest data base our statements.

I just browse the proposal on next 2020 Coronavirus assistance to Housing. Its pretty vague. First there was no mention of HAMP type of assistance, Maybe they'll give the funds to Hud, Hope, Non profit to do what they did in 2008 ie. to pretend to help struggling homeowners, while there's continued fundings The delay the processing so they can continue to milk the system, while the poor homeowner, so hopeful she would be protected, just to be disheartened and still lose its property.

If we can gather enough data about how many ppl in our forum and others from your you tube channels have been STRUNG along / CONNED by these banks, advocates, lawyers and legal aid, or non profit----- Then maybe we can tell Congress/Senate a more effective way to help struggling homeowner is to give DIRECTLY to people or forums like this. Moe was initiating to create this group to become the solution. With the extent of this mortgage delinquencies, our stories may have awaken them that somebody did not honor part of the bargain; possibility of this continued dishonor and uncertainty have to be stopped.

We truly need to Unite Now and organize ourselves. To those whose currently looking for work, maybe do this as part time work, since there will be funds available later. For those who has positive finances, currently working, maybe just volunteer and not get paid initially, to maximize funds to help as many struggling homeowners. I used to be a Mortgage processor w/ banks before. Hopefully I can still help with my processing or follow up skills, if needed, I can volunteer.

I feel the sense of good spirituality and faith to the American core values from each one of you.
"Opportunity knocks only once. its up to us to open it"

I saw Moe, you were trying to unite last 2009. Maybe, given dedicated contributors esp from "bagels", you had in the past 13 years, you can start over to lead us all to get united and become a strong powerful VOICE of the millions Voiceless Homeowners and tenants to achieve affordable mortgage, and lantern sustainable housing.

It all up to us now, you guys. It's once in a lifetime opportunity. BE a PART of a CHANGE , that can improve the lives of others. It validates our sense of pride, that despite being number 1 most infected country in the world and TRIFECTA of Crisis we are facing, Americans are truly UNITED in pursuit of a cause higher than ourselves. Its my last phase of my life & hope I can give back. I'm here if you guys are ready. Again Im sorry if Im not able to log in in the right forum -still pending- Its ok

Tony Blair said, "Whatever the dangers of the ACTION we take, the DANGERS of INACTION are far, far GREATER."
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
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It's interesting how the commercial real estate market, so far, hasn't sidestepped Covid 19, like it did the sub-prime crisis. I cannot imagine owning some, and having an anchor tenant like Gap, or Nordstrom's say 'we ain't payin'.

On the residential side, here's an article from today that's in line with my view-

When a real estate market in any area of the U.S. first starts to decline due to an economic crisis, there are always people willing to keep purchasing homes because they have the ability to do so but lack the true knowledge and foresight of what is about to happen to real estate values within the next 12 months.

The residential and multi-family markets are being artificially held up by moratoriums on mortgages, moratoriums on evictions, and also unemployment benefits giving the millions of the unemployed who own homes more money often then they made on their regular incomes.

This has all ended. The fallout will come with residential real estate as time moves forward and people with no jobs and failed businesses no longer have the financial wherewithal to bail out their sinking ships.

That's when the foreclosures will start like never in the history of the United States.
 
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Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
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Loan Safe Mortgage
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Hello smileback1953,

My experiences with trying to organize people had me come into contact with organizations that are set up to unite over such issues as NACA. At one time, we networked with Bruce Marks and NACA and also worked with one another for some time.

When I tried to organize people here in the forum it would not work because most people were too enveloped in their own problems and plights or simply too depressed and beaten down to fight back. Economic depressions make people depressed, sad, and unable to stand up and fight while they battle to save what little they have left.

My best advice is always to try to get a loan modification using the advice in these forums if you are able to save your home, or short sale if you can't afford it. Also, if you lost your old income, try to learn a new trade and create a new income and way of life that fits with the new economy and rent if need be.
 

smileback1953

LoanSafe Member
Dec 6, 2019
6
1
3
That's nice, Moe. I heard NACA helped a lot of homeowners. Only thing, is they only help 1st mortgages, and not "silent" 2nds. Im just concerned that Feds have so much on their plate now. From millions losing work (losing health care or pay $500/mo for Cobra), businesses with w/ ppl issues, next stimulus, worseningCoronavirus killing 1,000 Americans past 4 days, and start of people lining up for food, despite stimulus, which ends soon. Advocating for a change is complicated and takes time. that is why, I am putting here the "URGENCY, so those who took Forbearance of have long time defaulted will get some form of permanent relief option, and be able to keep homes. Homeowners Matters Too. I think OHM or MT said due to frustration.

I was reading forum about your call for UNITY. I can imagine the struggles you went thru when ppl are deaf from your plea and ignore your reasonings, and good intentions. Earlier, I was reading conversations from "Bagels......", they have been grateful for this forum you have created. In fact, they said, 'They found a family her".. You must have been proud to have a created such platform that connects people and made them mentally strong to fight the "Goliaths" That, Moe and all founders, & long time contributors are your LEGACY, that will forever be appreciated , although not always expressed by some -----Based on my experience, Great things happen in "DUE" Time. Maybe then was just a warm up, a drill, and NOW is REAL Deal and the CULMINATION of 13 years of Wall Street defrauding Americans and Enriching themselves with Fed's approval. Let's not be disheartened. Just like BLM Move , people HAD enough-- so goes the protests and continued advocacies.

I truly appreciate your advice about my loan. Fortunately, with Divine's Grace, despite being past retirement age , we survived the worst of helpless/hopelessness. With renewed faith, we are both back to do what we want. With family's assistance have just enough to pay mortgage and funds to fight the banks in case they intend to foreclose. We were toughened mentally and emotionally as we survived 10 tragic years. We don't think the banks deserve settlement, which we offered before, as we DID NOT KNOW enough Then, as we DID NOW. We're preparing for last phase of our lives. With 3 kids working for health and tutorials, we're grateful, tragic experiences kept us strong. We're concern only of good well-being, & give back w/ our wisdom.

Lastly, I have quck question to ask you. What MIDDLE GROUND or COMPROMISE (Thanks to youngest choosing this word), do you believe will best satisfy Homeowners and Wall Street? Think of the POSITIVE Consequences as follow:

1. Homeowners will be able to prevent from facing insanity and horror of foreclosures. Banks will get some funds too. Equal opportunity for Homeowner gain equity to replenish/recoup losses due to Corona virus or 2008 GR

2. The US will be protected from Financial Collapse, with Homeowner will enjoy the $50- $200,000 that Wall Street Profit if foreclosed, People will be much richer than the $1200 relief. US= Global leader to solve Pandemic crisis.

3. Your future will be BRIGHT than BLEAK. The true essence of investing in Real Estate will truly come to light, and true economic wealth equally distributed. US will be a Great Place toaccomplish the "American Dream".

Let me give you an example: F/C/S will create simple directive to mortgage services with a simplified HAMP X where everyone is approved to forbear 1 year; adding such back of the term without penalty. Another example is HAMP XI simplified with 1 page application for original balance vs current Bal. Page 2= Compromised amount settle w/in 3 mos. Depending on H's ready funds. No lawyers. No more blame- only RESOLUTION. What do you think? Thank, hope you find time to respond .
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
598
84
28
Oregon
Coming from the camp at Bagels, so far reading the posts here, it appears to be Philosophy 101. This is not a philosophical issue; it is lives, health, quality of life, all one has worked towards for their entire life; trauma. There will be no options, no plans of assistance. Isisis is correct that this is not the same lack of payment as before, temporarily. In 2008, the line told to many was " we cannot give you a modification unless you are 90 days in arrears." We know how that worked out. The banksters learned some methods since 2008, they have one by one changed fundamental laws all over the country. When that began, recording offices functioned entirely different than they do today. The courts are owned, the recording programs and offices are using software which supports the banks. Modifications, HAMP, National Mortgage Settlement Act...on and on it went. Those of us who survived did so by the seat of our pants. We didn't know anything that was certain, we just kept at it; we worked at it like a second job. It was pretty fulltime. We used luck and a lot of grit, and had to keep changing our tactics too. I would not bank on any programs, formulas, or cooperative programs to help anyone. The banks appear to have learned some tools, fine-tuned them, and I would suspect their well-oiled mechanized plan will leave little room for error. I would like to be wrong about this, and there could be some miracle ready to happen. Despite changes of administration over this last decade, the laws are in favor of the banks. One by one, they have changed the laws and the courts since 2008, and in the last thirteen years, it is a different world. This is a carefuly crafted and designed process to not mess it up this time. Buckle your seatbelts.
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
Coming from the camp at Bagels, so far reading the posts here, it appears to be Philosophy 101. This is not a philosophical issue; it is lives, health, quality of life, all one has worked towards for their entire life; trauma. There will be no options, no plans of assistance. Isisis is correct that this is not the same lack of payment as before, temporarily. In 2008, the line told to many was " we cannot give you a modification unless you are 90 days in arrears." We know how that worked out. The banksters learned some methods since 2008, they have one by one changed fundamental laws all over the country. When that began, recording offices functioned entirely different than they do today. The courts are owned, the recording programs and offices are using software which supports the banks. Modifications, HAMP, National Mortgage Settlement Act...on and on it went. Those of us who survived did so by the seat of our pants. We didn't know anything that was certain, we just kept at it; we worked at it like a second job. It was pretty fulltime. We used luck and a lot of grit, and had to keep changing our tactics too. I would not bank on any programs, formulas, or cooperative programs to help anyone. The banks appear to have learned some tools, fine-tuned them, and I would suspect their well-oiled mechanized plan will leave little room for error. I would like to be wrong about this, and there could be some miracle ready to happen. Despite changes of administration over this last decade, the laws are in favor of the banks. One by one, they have changed the laws and the courts since 2008, and in the last thirteen years, it is a different world. This is a carefuly crafted and designed process to not mess it up this time. Buckle your seatbelts.
I agree, the banksters have definitely honed their skills since the sub-prime fiasco. They got bailed out, no question about it. They also though, got fined up the wazoo/sanctioned/scolded by the Feds at all levels. Only insiders really know how nasty this was and there are many reports, it was brutal. Was there parity? Hell no, not even close. But the banksters for sure will not, can not, make the same errors (lost paperwork etc.), do nefarious crap (robo-sign etc) this time. And, in my opinion, it won't be necessary because the Feds are going to have to step in.

The difference, again is, this is a health crisis, and one caused by a foreign country. The U.S. economy was forced to shut down at the direction of the Feds.

Said another way:

2008 (ish)- Jane the hair stylist buys a home, or obtains a home loan because lending standards are essentially non-existent. Anyone that can 'fog a mirror' gets a loan. We all know how this ends. This affects many, but not all U.S. citizens. Many continue on with their lives normally.

2020- Jane the hair stylist is doing well (enough) to make her mortgage payments fine. Then Covid hits. The Feds tell Jane 'shut it down'. The Feds tell the entire U.S. economy to shut down. This affects everyone. Not all businesses or jobs will survive, but most will. In the interim, the Feds are stepping in to help. In the long term, the Feds know they cannot let people lose their homes on a large scale because of a Fed mandated shutdown.

My opinion here has been focused on the residential side of the equation. On the commercial real estate side (malls, strip centers, office buildings)- yikes.
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Aug 10, 2007
26,854
467
1,000
49
Southern California
www.loansafe.org
Coming from the camp at Bagels, so far reading the posts here, it appears to be Philosophy 101. This is not a philosophical issue; it is lives, health, quality of life, all one has worked towards for their entire life; trauma. There will be no options, no plans of assistance. Isisis is correct that this is not the same lack of payment as before, temporarily. In 2008, the line told to many was " we cannot give you a modification unless you are 90 days in arrears." We know how that worked out. The banksters learned some methods since 2008, they have one by one changed fundamental laws all over the country. When that began, recording offices functioned entirely different than they do today. The courts are owned, the recording programs and offices are using software which supports the banks. Modifications, HAMP, National Mortgage Settlement Act...on and on it went. Those of us who survived did so by the seat of our pants. We didn't know anything that was certain, we just kept at it; we worked at it like a second job. It was pretty fulltime. We used luck and a lot of grit, and had to keep changing our tactics too. I would not bank on any programs, formulas, or cooperative programs to help anyone. The banks appear to have learned some tools, fine-tuned them, and I would suspect their well-oiled mechanized plan will leave little room for error. I would like to be wrong about this, and there could be some miracle ready to happen. Despite changes of administration over this last decade, the laws are in favor of the banks. One by one, they have changed the laws and the courts since 2008, and in the last thirteen years, it is a different world. This is a carefuly crafted and designed process to not mess it up this time. Buckle your seatbelts.
The word philosophy simply means a "lover of wisdom" and yes, you need to have wisdom when trying to save your home. The reason many of you did so was from the result of the wisdom that was shared in this forum and the support.

What you have stated here I have been saying for well 13 years and many other people as well. This fact was true for well over a century before this crisis started and the last one over 10 years ago.

If you want to add some more philosophical theories to your bank conspiracies, I would say that the Coronavirus shut down is meant to cripple the entire world economy and there are people much more powerful than the banks orchestrating the destruction of the American way of life once and for all.

If you cannot find work or income in the coming years, you will not have a home and be forced to live in special shelters and camps.

Loan modifications will be off the table for anyone with no permanent income.
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Aug 10, 2007
26,854
467
1,000
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Southern California
www.loansafe.org
C

Chasegame two

Guest
Another interesting documentary that chronicles the demise of Lehman Brothers as described by whistleblowers- "Inside Lehman Brothers" (2018). I saw it on HBO but I think its available elsewhere.