Bagels at a Bar mitzvah Part II

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Good find,

Mine is not even a zombie debt, it is phantom, non-existent debt.

File the response to the law firm's MTD last week. hearing soon.
 

Attachments

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Sending good vibes your way. I'm struggling with this emotional nightmare again. I'm having a hard time finding a decision that a judge sided that the statute of limitations starts to run at the last pay versus the loan due date. Because heloc are tricky wording in respect to that.

600.5803 Foreclosure of mortgages.

No person shall bring or maintain any action or proceeding to foreclose a mortgage on real estate unless he commences the action or proceeding within 15 years after the mortgage becomes due or within 15 years after the last payment was made on the mortgage. This section limits foreclosure by advertisement and any other entries under the mortgage as well as actions of foreclosure in the courts

 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Anyone ever come across a federal case involving BOA splitting the 80/20 loans intentionally in their system? Or a fight against a heloc in an 80/20 when the 2mp program was not offered even though the first was under the making homes affordable
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Anyone ever come across a federal case involving BOA splitting the 80/20 loans intentionally in their system? Or a fight against a heloc in an 80/20 when the 2mp program was not offered even though the first was under the making homes affordable
\

I wish I could offer something solid for you! I'm under deadline on multiple arguments as the lender has continued the harassment through bankruptcy. No attorney takes these things without a retainer even though BK courts are pretty generous on fee shifting to the losing party. If I win, they pay costs and legal fees. Banks know this and that's how they win. No attorney will take it because the bank has complicated stuff and it takes too long for them to review. It is not on the merits. Just on harrassment.

Nevertheless, I hear Michigan is difficult on SOL and have argued this with one other person who feels the SOL is 15 years where I figured it was 6 years due to the Note SOL language. Not sure where this is in my files. There is specific languange on "the date of the last payment made" and no payments made for x years. Double check that one. I believe you have a valid case on SOL if the 2nd moves to foreclosure. Also FDCPA prevents debt collectors from collecting exprired or uncollectible debts. I have been through BK law and no, you can not strip property liens although you can strip judgment liens (say a medical debt sued you and you didn't answer, so they got a default judment against you for the balance owed - this is judgment lien)

It might be worth considering a chapter 13 in order to stip the lien in an adversary proceeding. If they file a proof of claim this might even be a violation due to the SOL affecting it. I can't say for sure. You would then pay through on the first lien as normal. I don't know if this would be an issue that might potentially give the 2nd and opportunity to get paid. I would talk to a BK attorney on it.

Otherwise, the 2nd lienholder with try to collect when you sell. Don't know what kind of mess that would be but it might b3e unpleasant.

Yes, the banks did screw people over leaving the 2nd loan hanging even though it qualified for 2mp. They did the same to me with the usual bullshit excuses they gave everyone for not doing things. Oh please, were inundated give us time!!!

PS you are in 6th circuit so searching for related terms in google scholar case search may help. See if there's anything in federal court on this.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Does anyone have a response I can connect with in Michigan for help? I'm freaking out.
Okay you made me look... I found this and wondered if this "act" in michigan might help you define some things in regards to Michigan statutes of limitations and heloc treatments. The google scholar case is not particularly relevant but the reference to the HELOC as a second mortgage might help.

" This complaint is against Defendants for violations of the Secondary Mortgage Loan Act, Mich. Comp. Laws Ann. § 493.51, et seq., ("SMLA"),... "

Lee v. CINCINNATI CAPITAL CORP., 434 F. Supp. 3d 601 - Dist. Court, ED Michigan 2020
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
T
Good find,

Mine is not even a zombie debt, it is phantom, non-existent debt.

File the response to the law firm's MTD last week. hearing soon.
I read and digested this one last nite...WOW! Very impressive MoT. I like the way you laid out this attack on this attorney, pps 7, 8, evidence inclusion, then the citations. Oh, and the examples and analogies were short and sweet and sprinkled in the right places.

I just finished up some exhaustive read and research prepping for my own arguments. A lot of the same considerations on how to prevent objections and competitive intelligence to counter dismissal claims of issue preclusion and some of the exact same things. (of course different districts) For every page I write I have x hours of research. These claims are independent of any prior judgment even though they have same evidence. Its distinct cause. My only losses are the ones where the court "helped" and I did not have notice. The half truths and misquoting of the record reads very true with the grungy, harassing, debt attorneys. I'm glad you mentioned the time this has consumed for you. I thought of you when I ran across this:

“If the source of the injury is the state court decision, then the Rooker-Feldman doctrine would prevent the district court from asserting jurisdiction. If there is some other source of injury . . . then the plaintiff asserts an independent claim” that is not subject to the RookerFeldman bar. Id. . (alteration in original) (quoting McCormick, 451 F.3d at 393)

Keep going!
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
I read and digested this one last nite...WOW! Very impressive MoT. I like the way you laid out this attack on this attorney, pps 7, 8, evidence inclusion, then the citations. Oh, and the examples and analogies were short and sweet and sprinkled in the right places.

I just finished up some exhaustive read and research prepping for my own arguments. A lot of the same considerations on how to prevent objections and competitive intelligence to counter dismissal claims of issue preclusion and some of the exact same things. (of course different districts) For every page I write I have x hours of research. These claims are independent of any prior judgment even though they have same evidence. Its distinct cause. My only losses are the ones where the court "helped" and I did not have notice. The half truths and misquoting of the record reads very true with the grungy, harassing, debt attorneys. I'm glad you mentioned the time this has consumed for you. I thought of you when I ran across this:

“If the source of the injury is the state court decision, then the Rooker-Feldman doctrine would prevent the district court from asserting jurisdiction. If there is some other source of injury . . . then the plaintiff asserts an independent claim” that is not subject to the RookerFeldman bar. Id. . (alteration in original) (quoting McCormick, 451 F.3d at 393)

Keep going!
It did not matter. Had my hearing last Friday. The judge granted their MODs on the ground of claim preclusion, essentially saying my claims was litigated in the foreclosure case and was denied (my 2nd motion for new trial and the decision being appealed). Nobody disputed nor refuted my evidence of fake note and false testimony (banks' lies)
I begin to think that the main reason is "we cannot let a pro se win, especially against the other 4 attys), or "we must let the banks/debt collectors to go thru with their collections regardless of what the laws say).
Anyway I am still here, my 2nd motion for new trial was denied on the ground of untimeliness but when the judge asked the law firm's atty what was the reason for denial was, he replied "for claim preclusion", another lie will show up on the transcript of my appeal of the MODs decision. I will file another motion to set aside judgment because it was obtained by fraud. In the end, I may have 3 appeals pending. I also working on another complaint ready for the Federal court if they file another writ. The war still going.

I also posted my complaint in response in Facbook group "American Against Foreclosure" (3000 members) helping one other fellow in the same boat giving him suggestions of what to look for.
 

Javagold

LoanSafe Member
It did not matter. Had my hearing last Friday. The judge granted their MODs on the ground of claim preclusion, essentially saying my claims was litigated in the foreclosure case and was denied (my 2nd motion for new trial and the decision being appealed). Nobody disputed nor refuted my evidence of fake note and false testimony (banks' lies)
I begin to think that the main reason is "we cannot let a pro se win, especially against the other 4 attys), or "we must let the banks/debt collectors to go thru with their collections regardless of what the laws say).
Anyway I am still here, my 2nd motion for new trial was denied on the ground of untimeliness but when the judge asked the law firm's atty what was the reason for denial was, he replied "for claim preclusion", another lie will show up on the transcript of my appeal of the MODs decision. I will file another motion to set aside judgment because it was obtained by fraud. In the end, I may have 3 appeals pending. I also working on another complaint ready for the Federal court if they file another writ. The war still going.

I also posted my complaint in response in Facbook group "American Against Foreclosure" (3000 members) helping one other fellow in the same boat giving him suggestions of what to look for.
I’m a moderator there, who you on FB group AAF ???
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
It did not matter. Had my hearing last Friday. The judge granted their MODs on the ground of claim preclusion, essentially saying my claims was litigated in the foreclosure case and was denied (my 2nd motion for new trial and the decision being appealed). Nobody disputed nor refuted my evidence of fake note and false testimony (banks' lies)
I begin to think that the main reason is "we cannot let a pro se win, especially against the other 4 attys), or "we must let the banks/debt collectors to go thru with their collections regardless of what the laws say).
Anyway I am still here, my 2nd motion for new trial was denied on the ground of untimeliness but when the judge asked the law firm's atty what was the reason for denial was, he replied "for claim preclusion", another lie will show up on the transcript of my appeal of the MODs decision. I will file another motion to set aside judgment because it was obtained by fraud. In the end, I may have 3 appeals pending. I also working on another complaint ready for the Federal court if they file another writ. The war still going.

I also posted my complaint in response in Facbook group "American Against Foreclosure" (3000 members) helping one other fellow in the same boat giving him suggestions of what to look for.
Wow, I'm sorry about this. It appears banks avoid getting rulings against them on their losing claims in one way or another that is totally unrelated to merits. I wish I had had known that I could have motioned to dismiss earlier but I was told (falsely) that doing such would convert the motion to MSJ. I'm reading and found that a good defense involves not only compelling counter argument but denying evidence... and a motion to dismiss does in fact deny evidence...

Ironically, each and every MSJ by the bank in my FC, I have argued judicial estoppel (now referenced as claim preclusion.) They really don't care what I write in response, they just resupply the MSJ. Must've been 6 or 7 times with only calling one or two an amendment. This has allowed them to accumulate thousands in fees because they assume its all against the property as a matter of right because of note language inclusion of "reasonable".fees. I'm looking for some law on to support discharge and deny amounts incurred after breach of contract. Maybe inflated charges incurred by the lenders actions elongating litigation should not be presumed to be secured and recoverable? The multitude of amending of motions should not have occurred if it had an actual legitimate basis for default.

No matter where I look, it appears the courts are ruling in such a manner that negates any prevailing laws or procedural mechanisms when it comes to foreclosure related claims. I have found the strongest protection is in NY so I'm hoping to find federal rulings in that district but alas, foreclosures are a state cause of action. Its the only district I've found that ties amending to "could have presented earlier" versus "amendment shall be given freely" in a smack down.

I'm not re-litigating state court. I am using bankruptcy court to seek recoupment where claim preclusion does not apply.

Basically, there is no fresh start where potentially dischargeable items remain and the inflated principal balance is devoid of accounting. I have rights on it related to bankruptcy as they submitted to jurisdiction. At least that's my basis for pursuit.

State court simply ignores or misinterprets counterclaims (ruling is rubberstamp of bank attorney submission). There is no ruling on these claims and they have not been adjucated.

I'm feeling some good energy on it! :)
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
\

I wish I could offer something solid for you! I'm under deadline on multiple arguments as the lender has continued the harassment through bankruptcy. No attorney takes these things without a retainer even though BK courts are pretty generous on fee shifting to the losing party. If I win, they pay costs and legal fees. Banks know this and that's how they win. No attorney will take it because the bank has complicated stuff and it takes too long for them to review. It is not on the merits. Just on harrassment.

Nevertheless, I hear Michigan is difficult on SOL and have argued this with one other person who feels the SOL is 15 years where I figured it was 6 years due to the Note SOL language. Not sure where this is in my files. There is specific languange on "the date of the last payment made" and no payments made for x years. Double check that one. I believe you have a valid case on SOL if the 2nd moves to foreclosure. Also FDCPA prevents debt collectors from collecting exprired or uncollectible debts. I have been through BK law and no, you can not strip property liens although you can strip judgment liens (say a medical debt sued you and you didn't answer, so they got a default judment against you for the balance owed - this is judgment lien)

It might be worth considering a chapter 13 in order to stip the lien in an adversary proceeding. If they file a proof of claim this might even be a violation due to the SOL affecting it. I can't say for sure. You would then pay through on the first lien as normal. I don't know if this would be an issue that might potentially give the 2nd and opportunity to get paid. I would talk to a BK attorney on it.

Otherwise, the 2nd lienholder with try to collect when you sell. Don't know what kind of mess that would be but it might b3e unpleasant.

Yes, the banks did screw people over leaving the 2nd loan hanging even though it qualified for 2mp. They did the same to me with the usual bullshit excuses they gave everyone for not doing things. Oh please, were inundated give us time!!!

PS you are in 6th circuit so searching for related terms in google scholar case search may help. See if there's anything in federal court on this.
Thank you so much! I found these cases that were judge ruled they are within the SOL to foreclose
  1. Hewson v. Specialized Loan Servicing, LLC, No. 19-12518 (E.D. Mich. Jul. 14, 2022) https://casetext.com/case/hewson-v-...g-llc?q=600.5803&sort=relevance&p=1&type=case
  2. Akouri v. Comerica Bank, No. 349923 (Mich. Ct. App. Nov. 12, 2020) https://casetext.com/case/akouri-v-comerica-bank?q=600.5803&sort=relevance&p=1&type=case
  3. Newman v. Real Time Resolutions, Inc., 342 Mich. App. 405, 994 N.W.2d 852 (Mich. Ct. App. 2022) https://casetext.com/case/newman-v-.... Real Tim&sort=date-descending&p=1&type=case
  4. Carter v. U.S. Bank Tr., No. 365301 (Mich. Ct. App. Apr. 18, 2024) - https://casetext.com/case/carter-v-...keyword&jxs=us,6cir,ttab,fedreg,usc,cfr,miapp
Also. latest update. They have now sent a statement showing the full principal ($42k) has been paid and what's due is the interest and fees ($117k). Wtf

FDCPA differs to the states SOL as a guideline for time barred debt.

The senator of Michigan responded to one of my emails calling for action.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
I don't know about Rooker-Feldman. I've found further info and the "judgement stands" argument (federal vs state) is likely too tough even though I've put some work into a complaint. My complaint is on the submission which has blatant errors in charges. They've doubled fees, even attorney charges and sought claims for things that aren't there. Don't know if the discrepency can be used in state court. It's on the books that this is standard defense even though it is separate argument from the judgment and I feel I'm entitled to recoupment and declaration of dischargability, it appears "secured" covers everything extra even rthough the post litigation charges and add-ons to the loan are outrageously inflated and some even illegal. My only recourse is FDCPA claim for the false filing but even those are basically null and void because there is not teeth and lender's have case law denying abuses. They have succeeded in harrassement by filing something that is meaningless to argue in federal court and meaningless for them to file... but they got the "add on" of double legal fees...
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
The exclusions for R-F (claim preclusion) include damages on the judgment and other claims involving creditor rights in bankruptcy. Hard to beat. Banks are using this as a bullet proof vest. I'm not looking forward to trying this in state court because I have to complete appeal process to get to it and that is another year of my time. Meanwhile I have sale date looming immediately after bk discharge. So I better move my energy to another injunction. I'm a little concerned in that the FC judge3 (former fc attorney) has spoiled that appeal already and my opportunity to obtain an injunction in appeal court... because she is actively aiding the bank and actively causing me to continue litigation to protect my rights over her lack of notice on the judgment.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Thank you so much! I found these cases that were judge ruled they are within the SOL to foreclose
  1. Hewson v. Specialized Loan Servicing, LLC, No. 19-12518 (E.D. Mich. Jul. 14, 2022) https://casetext.com/case/hewson-v-...g-llc?q=600.5803&sort=relevance&p=1&type=case
  2. Akouri v. Comerica Bank, No. 349923 (Mich. Ct. App. Nov. 12, 2020) https://casetext.com/case/akouri-v-comerica-bank?q=600.5803&sort=relevance&p=1&type=case
  3. Newman v. Real Time Resolutions, Inc., 342 Mich. App. 405, 994 N.W.2d 852 (Mich. Ct. App. 2022) https://casetext.com/case/newman-v-real-time-resolutions-inc-4?q=Newman v. Real Tim&sort=date-descending&p=1&type=case
  4. Carter v. U.S. Bank Tr., No. 365301 (Mich. Ct. App. Apr. 18, 2024) - https://casetext.com/case/carter-v-...keyword&jxs=us,6cir,ttab,fedreg,usc,cfr,miapp
Also. latest update. They have now sent a statement showing the full principal ($42k) has been paid and what's due is the interest and fees ($117k). Wtf

FDCPA differs to the states SOL as a guideline for time barred debt.

The senator of Michigan responded to one of my emails calling for action.
WOW. That is a WTF on the interest. Good you have info and a response. Fingers crossed!
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
\

I wish I could offer something solid for you! I'm under deadline on multiple arguments as the lender has continued the harassment through bankruptcy. No attorney takes these things without a retainer even though BK courts are pretty generous on fee shifting to the losing party. If I win, they pay costs and legal fees. Banks know this and that's how they win. No attorney will take it because the bank has complicated stuff and it takes too long for them to review. It is not on the merits. Just on harrassment.

Nevertheless, I hear Michigan is difficult on SOL and have argued this with one other person who feels the SOL is 15 years where I figured it was 6 years due to the Note SOL language. Not sure where this is in my files. There is specific languange on "the date of the last payment made" and no payments made for x years. Double check that one. I believe you have a valid case on SOL if the 2nd moves to foreclosure. Also FDCPA prevents debt collectors from collecting exprired or uncollectible debts. I have been through BK law and no, you can not strip property liens although you can strip judgment liens (say a medical debt sued you and you didn't answer, so they got a default judment against you for the balance owed - this is judgment lien)

It might be worth considering a chapter 13 in order to stip the lien in an adversary proceeding. If they file a proof of claim this might even be a violation due to the SOL affecting it. I can't say for sure. You would then pay through on the first lien as normal. I don't know if this would be an issue that might potentially give the 2nd and opportunity to get paid. I would talk to a BK attorney on it.

Otherwise, the 2nd lienholder with try to collect when you sell. Don't know what kind of mess that would be but it might be unpleasant.

Yes, the banks did screw people over leaving the 2nd loan hanging even though it qualified for 2mp. They did the same to me with the usual bullshit excuses they gave everyone for not doing things. Oh please, were inundated give us time!!!

PS you are in 6th circuit so searching for related terms in google scholar case search may help. See if there's anything in federal court on this.
You can strip a lien, even if it's a mortgage. I've come across this in my research but under certain conditions in BK court. Chapter 13. Must be under water...so listed as unsecured due to market value. I have read of cases where it was allowed to modify previous discharges to whip out based on the yr of order if not done then...rare...but has been allowed.
 
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