Bagels at a Bar mitzvah Part II

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
GREAT find CM !!! You now have the citation of elements establishing "good cause" to reopen and argue a "lack of prejudice" on the lender (as they had these facts in their possession which does not impair a defense). Usually prejudice comes from delay or contradicting arguments. It unfairly affects the party if they can't defend due to the passage of time and dissipation of evidence. Wondering...Is it them that has prejudiced you?

I would say this qualifies for the trio claims of "laches, waiver and estoppel" doctrines. It's a good defense but unlikely an affirmative claim. They waived their rights by inaction over the passage of time (no attempt to collect) and are now estopped from claiming this right (foreclosure) after you were lulled into reliance on the inactivity as a waiver over the passage of time and proceeded to rely on the lender's inaction on the lien and subsequently made improvements under the belief that the lien was no longer enforceable.

You're doing good. You have a plan and supporting refs on the motion. Get that draft motion to reopen started. Create your template or ask the BK clerk if they have forms. You need to follow procedure of notice and hearing requirements. Sometimes clerks forms already contain the legalese required. Just ask. Some help. Some don't. The service of notice on the adversary claim initiates a new case with a new case number (your argument to get what you want). If you represent yourself you can request a waiver on filing fees (its a separate motion to ask) but not if you have money for attorney. Of course... Always advisable to have an attorney. Especially one experienced in BK and willing to wrap up the discharge issues on the second. Review the file thru pacer so you have an idea of where your evidence on the claim lies. In BK, attorneys have electronic access review for an initial consult. I would shop for the bk attorney unless your current attorney is already licensed in federal bankruptcy court. If he's not, well , decision made. Not qualified for the task. Ask him if he knows anyone with this type of experience. He may give you a good lead. He may also not know anyone in the field. Hopefully you can get a flat rate quote that is affordable. Last quote I got on an adversary proceeding was 2500 (against bank) but it was because it was complicated issue requiring time and review. I can see why this would cost any more than the costs of the initial filing representation and the one charge "no look" pricing. I could be wrong. It's your choice to go solo or hire someone, but please take advantage of free consultations regardless. Ask for leads because most BK attorneys provide limited services and don't litigate but they may know someone in a different practice that does.
I have some work to do. I am not sure it re-opening provides an automatic stay. So there is that too I have to address. I am also not sure if I have do this along with filing a suit against them so I can stay the sheriff sale. Question though, for my discharged BK 7, under the statement of Intentions. Does what is written in the section for 2nd hold any weight? I know a creditor cannot be forced to "reaffirm" but that is what I thought I was doing when applying and getting approved for the HAMP loan mod.

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cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Just here, working through the details....:D OMG please pray I can find an attorney that has experience in doing this!!!!!!

Section 350(b) of the US Bankruptcy Code allows a bankruptcy court to reopen a closed case under certain circumstances, which could include a debtor wanting to reaffirm a debt at the time of discharge, but only at the fair market value of the secured property at the time of the bankruptcy petition filing; essentially allowing them to "re-enter" the case to formally reaffirm a debt on specific terms, usually to keep valuable collateral like a car or house. This can also potentially stop a foreclosure. By reopening a case will triggers an "automatic stay" that temporarily halts foreclosure proceedings, if the court deems it appropriate to do so based on the circumstances;

Key points about Section 350(b) and reaffirmation:

Reopening a closed case:
This section enables a court to reopen a closed bankruptcy case to address issues that may have been missed or to allow further actions, like reaffirming a debt, if necessary.

Fair market value at petition filing:
When reaffirming a secured debt under Section 350(b), the value of the collateral is typically considered at the time the bankruptcy petition was filed, not the current market value.

Court discretion:

The court has discretion to decide whether to reopen a case under Section 350(b) and will consider factors like the reason for reopening and whether any parties would be prejudiced.

Good faith requirement:
To successfully reaffirm a debt under Section 350(b), the debtor must act in good faith and demonstrate a clear understanding of the terms of the reaffirmation agreement.

when reaffirming a secured debt under Section 350(b), the value of the collateral is generally considered at the time the bankruptcy petition was filed, not the current market value; this means the valuation is based on the "petition date" value, not the "present" value.

Explanation:
Purpose of valuation:
The primary reason for using the petition date value is to ensure fairness and consistency in the bankruptcy process, as it provides a fixed point in time for determining the secured creditor's claim against the collateral.

Impact on reaffirmation:
If the value of the collateral has increased significantly since the petition date, the debtor may be able to negotiate a better deal with the creditor when reaffirming the debt, as the creditor's claim is based on the lower petition date value.

Key points to remember:

Legal requirement:
Section 350(b) of the Bankruptcy Code outlines the process for reaffirming a secured debt, and courts typically interpret this section as requiring the use of the petition date value for collateral valuation.

Exceptions may exist:
In rare circumstances, a court may consider a different valuation date if there are significant changes in the collateral's value due to unusual market conditions or other factors.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
What do you think about this?

SA governs how the loan would be handled moving forward by servicers
- Hendricks v. U.S. Bank - PSA rules foreclosure term
Case reference 10849-CH

 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
I.....give....up. Waving the white flag. Every way I look at this they win. Can't find anyone to fight for or along side of me. Even to validate my arguments. I guess I screwed up. I feel so dumb and a failure. The emotional toll this has taken is outrageous. I wish I knew then what I do now. Even in BK. Too much equity. Too much savings. I will be working till I'm 90 years old.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
I.....give....up. Waving the white flag. Every way I look at this they win. Can't find anyone to fight for or along side of me. Even to validate my arguments. I guess I screwed up. I feel so dumb and a failure. The emotional toll this has taken is outrageous. I wish I knew then what I do now. Even in BK. Too much equity. Too much savings. I will be working till I'm 90 years old.
Don't give up, keep fighting. My case case as an example. Just keep reading and learn. Nobody know about your case more than you and the attorneys whether they work for the banks, NewRez/Shellpoint or you just in it for the money. I has been in foreclosure since 2010, got a foreclosure judgment, two scheduled sales, and still here, probably till I die (that's what they hope). It's not over till it's the sheriff kicks you out, even then you can still sue for wrongful foreclusre damage.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Don't give up, keep fighting. My case case as an example. Just keep reading and learn. Nobody know about your case more than you and the attorneys whether they work for the banks, NewRez/Shellpoint or you just in it for the money. I has been in foreclosure since 2010, got a foreclosure judgment, two scheduled sales, and still here, probably till I die (that's what they hope). It's not over till it's the sheriff kicks you out, even then you can still sue for wrongful foreclusre damage.
If they foreclose I'll have no money to fight.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
You guys are brilliant and I've learned so much here. But in a court room they'd chew me up and spit me out. I needed an attorney. I'm a single mom of a 6 yr old working a full time professional job and researching this at night. This is emotionally draining. I fell defeated and I hate that.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
This is who you are dealing with:

Caliber was acquired by NewRez
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Helpful videos from a consumer atty firm in Florida. These vids deal with credit card debt collections but subprime mortgages are the equivalence of charged-off credit catd debts. Mortgage servicing rights owners like NewRez are the equiv. to junk debt buyers, and the original credit card companies (Chase, Capital One, etc...) are the equiv. to subprime trusts or the mortgage originators. Same strategies could be applied.

 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Helpful videos from a consumer atty firm in Florida. These vids deal with credit card debt collections but subprime mortgages are the equivalence of charged-off credit catd debts. Mortgage servicing rights owners like NewRez are the equiv. to junk debt buyers, and the original credit card companies (Chase, Capital One, etc...) are the equiv. to subprime trusts or the mortgage originators. Same strategies could be applied.

Yes and no. One still must contend with the fact that each state tends to have different laws dealing with promissory notes than with open accounts like credit cards. Many of the specific statutes and concepts do not apply the same from one to the other. If you try to defend against foreclosure by following credit card debt collector cases, you're going to miss some very important pieces. Case law is filled with examples of people trying to do this, and the courts responding by tossing out the cites and defenses based on them simply because they are distinguishable in this regard.

There will be some strategies that can be applied but this depends on the specific states and their laws. In some states there will be very little that can carry over from third party debt collector open account suits to foreclosures. Remember the most fundamental difference--a charged-off credit card account is closed, leaving only a balance due. But a subprime mortgage is still based on a promissory note and mortgage, so there are a lot more moving parts.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
I.....give....up. Waving the white flag. Every way I look at this they win. Can't find anyone to fight for or along side of me. Even to validate my arguments. I guess I screwed up. I feel so dumb and a failure. The emotional toll this has taken is outrageous. I wish I knew then what I do now. Even in BK. Too much equity. Too much savings. I will be working till I'm 90 years old.
Well, don't give up. Do it for your child. I've been there done that one. It was sometimes rough. I didn't like being absorbed so much that I was ignoring the kids in the den reading law losing track of time (even though they didn't seem to care cause of the computer games.)

My hindsight is don't lose the house. You may not be able to replace it.

But, hey, the kiddo is growing and getting easier. That's a great age! You can be like the 20-somethings and have 4 jobs? Just kidding. Real grown-ups only have two. Which is worse, spending time researching case law in the evening studying or working part-time to pay an attorney? at Cracker Barrel. Hmmm...

I just don't think, you've found the right attorney yet. Don't believe everything you here from an attorney either. Some dismiss cases they don't want to take but it doesn't mean you don't have a claim. Maybe check out legal aid, access to justice, etc. and see if they have any programs. They may not do foreclosure but everyone does BK. There could be some agencies providing FC support it post-pandemic. Did you get a TRO on your own? I've never done the supersedeas bond. These may not apply on a TRO. I couldn't get a stay pending appeal without bond. (a story for later lol)

I didn't think it was too bad navigating bankruptcy on my own. Foreclosure attorneys are rare. Bankruptcy attorneys are a dime a dozen. If you have equity you might consider chapter 13, then follow-up on 7, settle out later or bundle *but that I really don't know. I here rumors about the 20. The reason I say 13 is because you said you had a little too much equity for chapter 7. Ask about the "no peek" rate. Then don't let them peek. Its a basic bundle rate. You might get a little more traction. Chapter 13 does have the stay as well. Plus, if you're working, you really could use an attorney taking over for your sanity. That way you can come and enjoy your family more.

Plus, there is *something* going around. Over the past few weeks. I think I've seen this in an astrology group being talked out... It's the Age of Aquarius. :eek: Apparently a lot of people are feeling off on it. Seriously! Every 26 years? All I remember is the song. I still like that song.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Helpful videos from a consumer atty firm in Florida. These vids deal with credit card debt collections but subprime mortgages are the equivalence of charged-off credit catd debts. Mortgage servicing rights owners like NewRez are the equiv. to junk debt buyers, and the original credit card companies (Chase, Capital One, etc...) are the equiv. to subprime trusts or the mortgage originators. Same strategies could be applied.

I'm gonna one up Krafty... It's not yes and no but..."sometimes" :D
Sometimes there's a good tid bit in these videos from Florida. They do have watch dogs and that makes finding good references in Florida a plus for the self-represented litigant in Florida. So for the rest of us, heed this good tid bit. I think his initial statement was to go over the documents line by line. Yes. That's it. That's the good tid bit!

Plus, MoT you are going to get a kick out of the robomill attnys one state over. They are copying my legal template. Does this make me smarter or them stupider? :cool:

I will have to look around for old H2O docs for Cookie 'cause I went through same on that one. I run across it periodically but since their statutes are out, its a non-issue for me. Plus I paid em off. (but of course they didn't release the lien and that's another story) My files are deep and I may have old manuals. Most of it is removed so research is harder. I'll share what I find later. All good reading but save time and use key word search and download cause I may have to delete Im not helping the enemy.

I'm still looking for some good utube songs. Hair was a good listening while going through papers. Jimmy Buffet or Mariah Carey? Music is good for the soul. Thanks folks!
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
I've been looking an attorney since 2010. I have talked to 11 defense attorneys, argued against 10 attorneys, currently fighting against 6 attys in my foreclosure and tort case. My experience is the one you are looking for would not take your case because of its complexity, improbability of winning, fighting against the system, etc... The last atty I dealt with, initially I thought he was on board with me, turned out he was trying to rip me off (charging me 20 hours at $400/hr for some opinions of little-value added to my case, I paid him for 4.5 hour and told him, take it or sue me). From that experience, I stop looking for an attorney because I realize the best attorney is myself. The proof is ten attys have tried to take my house and I am still here. Keep reading and fighting, never give up. You'll feel better even if you lose fighting.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
I've been looking an attorney since 2010. I have talked to 11 defense attorneys, argued against 10 attorneys, currently fighting against 6 attys in my foreclosure and tort case. My experience is the one you are looking for would not take your case because of its complexity, improbability of winning, fighting against the system, etc... The last atty I dealt with, initially I thought he was on board with me, turned out he was trying to rip me off (charging me 20 hours at $400/hr for some opinions of little-value added to my case, I paid him for 4.5 hour and told him, take it or sue me). From that experience, I stop looking for an attorney because I realize the best attorney is myself. The proof is ten attys have tried to take my house and I am still here. Keep reading and fighting, never give up. You'll feel better even if you lose fighting.
Attorneys have too much of a learning curve on the great recession mortgage fraud or they've already seen others get shot down and kicked out. The system can be abusive where folks don't "go along to get along." The risk is not worth it to them. In general, they don't like to hear the f word. (fraud) Anything with "history" involved is also something they don't want to touch due to the possible SOLs. I do think CookieM has a better shot (for an attorney or to do pro se) in that it is a straight line to re-open the BK with the request for a valuation. We learn tricks and traps to avoid. It's all experience education. Any lawyer, or judge for that matter, wants to see the evidence for the claim. It does look like CM has that BK7claim for market value circa 2010? documented in the BK file history and could demand performance on it using an adversary claim (after motion to re-open for purpose of adversary). As long as its always been federal claim, unlitigated elsewhere, there should be no Rooker-Feldman bar on it. I mean, even with newer state FC, the prior bk claim takes legal precedence on arguments.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Only one firm, but this is the second suit they have filed and this second suit itself is on its 4th judge. one retired. The second was recused for having private conversations with opposing counsel. The third was forced to resign because she was caught having an affair and also because of text messages showing racist comments. Now on the fourth.
 
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