Bagels at a Bar mitzvah Part II

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
This started out looking like a good idea but probably failed alot of homeowners, at least in FL. The state received the money for the fund in March 2021. approx 550mil. It took the state of FL over a year to implement it's program. Finally in May 2022 they started issuing funds. I was on tier 2 due to being over max income. I think max income for tier 1 was approx. 80k. per year. So state of FL has used all funds for tier 1 applicants. They stated they have issued 400mil to approx 8000 consumers and will not be able to help anyone else. My question is each person they helped received approx 50k if you do the math. Now how did they give each applicant's mortgage company 50k. That would be one hell of a mortgage payment that was due, yet they could only have 80k in income. Something seems fishy to me.
John, looking at the math, I think FL allocated "funds" whether due or not for a full two years of pandemic shortages. I see your pain because this eats up all the program funding and well... you know Florida... It is unlikely that these accounts, even in spite of unemployment (which was 600/week for some) and various government payments (pandemic related relief), are actually in default for the full two years or have the requisite math of $2083/mo mortgage payment to eat up all the government program benefits. Yeah, I think there's some skimming or withholding of performance by whoever is managing this one.
 

Luca Bayon

LoanSafe Guide
This started out looking like a good idea but probably failed alot of homeowners, at least in FL. The state received the money for the fund in March 2021. approx 550mil. It took the state of FL over a year to implement it's program. Finally in May 2022 they started issuing funds. I was on tier 2 due to being over max income. I think max income for tier 1 was approx. 80k. per year. So state of FL has used all funds for tier 1 applicants. They stated they have issued 400mil to approx 8000 consumers and will not be able to help anyone else. My question is each person they helped received approx 50k if you do the math. Now how did they give each applicant's mortgage company 50k. That would be one hell of a mortgage payment that was due, yet they could only have 80k in income. Something seems fishy to me.
Hi John, we had been in contact via email and text awhile back but now I understand why you were slow to respond. I had no idea this program was underway in Florida! I'm glad to hear that the state at least tried to deal with the problem - even though it was marginal. I'm happy to look at this case further with you to help take care of that toxic lien once and for all.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Isisis, I've been surfing on this but haven't found how this is treated in the courts with a defensive argument against it. California is its own beast and tends to move forward more quickly than the rest in establishing precendents. It does appear to open doors for a cause of action at a later date but it think, in a foreclosure case, it could flip the script where a homeowner discovers (allegedly) new information or argument and amends to incorporate the claim. The primary thing I see is a lender's refusal to correct an account or implement a modification according to its terms. Where modifications are treated as disposable, one could potentially rely on this along with promissory estopple or breach of contract. Some state specific claims on debts also include an inability to collect interest where a creditor has collected more interest than lawfully (or contracturally) due which could also have bearing on these (alleged) disposable modifications. You would also have to consider the counter arguments against you that may work for you as well so be prepared to quash the countering. They can't have their cake and eat it too where they destroy a contract that they use as a basis for entitlement. The principals of waiver and laches will come into play as well.

 

Luca Bayon

LoanSafe Guide
To everyone on this thread who studies these cases as meticulously as we do. I would like to ask everyone to give me or list servicers who are common amongst charged off 2nd mortgages. I am familiar with Real Time Resolutions and Specialized Loan Services, but would like to expand my search. So please tag me and write out the ones that are just as/or more toxic than the above.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Did you guys know that NewRes has changed its name to :
"
Description
Rithm Capital Corp. provides capital and services to the real estate and financial services sectors in the United States. Its investment portfolio comprises mortgage servicing related assets, residential securities and loans, and consumer loans. It qualifies as a real estate investment trust for federal income tax purposes. The company generally would not be subject to federal corporate income taxes if it distributes at least 90% of its taxable income to its stockholders. The company was formerly known as New Residential Investment Corp. and changed its name to Rithm Capital Corp. in August 2022. Rithm Capital Corp. was incorporated in 2011 and is headquartered in New York, New York.
"
It boasted it delivered since 2013 4.1 billions of dollars to shareholders. The 4.1 billions is from skimming of the top of payments from the home owners before paying the bond investors. Also some of it (I wonder how much) is from illegally foreclosing on homeowners using its subsidiaries like Shellpoint, and partner with Ocwen to do its bidding.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Ocwen goes to PHH. They frequently break law trying to collect claims after/during bankruptcy. Can't say who all their subsidiaries are, or even if they identify who owns the loan. (but I think they are buying the seconds once the first loan forecloses) It appears they fudge a lot of debt and get bonuses on it. Best to dispose through payoff if you can, but unlikely to get cause they want the property.
 

razmik

LoanSafe Member
After ten years, thousands of postings, nearly a million views and more last stand battles for justice than I can remember, it's not easy to imagine a world without Bagels at Bar Mitzvah.

It served as a safe place where people who reluctantly but with no other choice could come and say things that would sound crazy to anyone who hadn't gotten it into their head that for the purpose of justice they were compelled to engage in mortal combat with an opponent fifty trillion times their size. And compare notes with others similarly deranged.

In the real world of course we understood that battles so imbalanced are not supposed to be winable and not just due to the disparity of size but because the banks own the county and think they own us. Bagels allowed us to enjoy the fairytale we grew up believing about justice and equality in the eyes of the law. But it's not easy to disengage from the fairytale of American justice, it was after all the concept upon which the country was built. It's also kind of important to keep a semblance of it alive since every now and then there is a breakthrough victory. And it usually happens because someone like one of us dreamers wouldn't give up.

Eleven years ago I first posted on this site. It was five days before a scheduled sale. I'm still fighting but still in my home because of the help I received on Loansafe. Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah is a thread I started in 2011 as a place we could work together, share our stories, pool our knowledge and brainstorm on how to keep our homes. The name is a reference to the manner in which banks ought to be handing out modifications to homeowners after they played with our mortgages on the stock market, collapsed the economy, then when they got bailed out and promised to modify loans but instead used the modification process as a mechanism to foreclose.

But something changed that the banks didn't foresee. We were all becoming more savvy in the use of Al Gore's brilliant invention called the internet as a means of resistance since its made the law accessible to everyone. We were even finding things that attorneys didn't know about since as it turned out the banks have been profligate in their malfeasance perhaps under the conceit that no one would even know.
Not the law isn't bloody complicated, particularly as foreclosure involves so many area of the law but it's a significant tool in our hands.

On Bagels we've tried to provide what isn't available anywhere else: real people with hands on experience telling the truth and sharing our experience and a place to for people in the most alienating of circumstances to find support. When you're fighting for your home against outrageous odds with an opponent who thinks they're above they law you need someone on your side.

So Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah will pick up where we left off and keep on moving forward. If you need help post your circumstances, if you have knowledge to share please join in. Everyone will be treated with respect.


Isisis
Hellllllllo my friend,,,,I am still here and in my home thanks to you FIRST and all others. If you were not here and holding my hand I was GONE. I mean the house and me, both. Thank you, thank you and thank you...Keep in touch..RAZMIK B.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
In federal court. Forgot how harrowing it is to stand off against the legal machinery of a vast corporate entity that eats homeowners for breakfast. With everything on the line panic can be paralyzing. The law may be a sword and shield and the great equalizer but with all its intricate rules and time periods it's more complicated than Chinese algebra, to misquote Tom Waites who certainly didn't coin that superlative to describe foreclosure litigation.

Anyway, the SOL is a huge problem in fighting a long-term battle. I screwed up for FDCPA and all of its delightful strict liability, attorney fees, possible punitive etc. California's version tolled the statute four months but if you looked closer not necessarily so I lost out.

But at the same time breach of contract survived the MTD and that was crucial, everything rests on that premise. If they were in breach they lacked the right to foreclose or to threaten to foreclose or to impose charges and fees and prevent me from enjoying the contract's benefits. So I'm still afloat.

Scary stuff though, I've been jelly. Hats off to my colleagues representing themselves, I lack the intestinal fortitude and the requisite organisational ability to remember all the rules of civil bleeping procedure.

Having an attorney ups the ante though because they get paid win or lose. But with so much on the line and evidence of deliberate wrongdoing it was essential.

Kids don't try this at home.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
In federal court. Forgot how harrowing it is to stand off against the legal machinery of a vast corporate entity that eats homeowners for breakfast. With everything on the line panic can be paralyzing. The law may be a sword and shield and the great equalizer but with all its intricate rules and time periods it's more complicated than Chinese algebra, to misquote Tom Waites who certainly didn't coin that superlative to describe foreclosure litigation.

Anyway, the SOL is a huge problem in fighting a long-term battle. I screwed up for FDCPA and all of its delightful strict liability, attorney fees, possible punitive etc. California's version tolled the statute four months but if you looked closer not necessarily so I lost out.

But at the same time breach of contract survived the MTD and that was crucial, everything rests on that premise. If they were in breach they lacked the right to foreclose or to threaten to foreclose or to impose charges and fees and prevent me from enjoying the contract's benefits. So I'm still afloat.

Scary stuff though, I've been jelly. Hats off to my colleagues representing themselves, I lack the intestinal fortitude and the requisite organisational ability to remember all the rules of civil bleeping procedure.

Having an attorney ups the ante though because they get paid win or lose. But with so much on the line and evidence of deliberate wrongdoing it was essential.

Kids don't try this at home.
I can sympathize with you fighting against the crooks. It takes either a lot of time and effort (pro se) and money (hiring attorneys) or both.
In my case, the danger of hiring attorney is he/she will play with their (banks/judges) rules, accepting the fraud and misrepresentation as being true even if stopping the foreclosure by some technicals. That is not what I want, I want to show how I and many others were defrauded by the sub-prime scheme. Furthermore, the banks know fighting them with hired hands would cost more than the house payments.
My daily routine is to check county sheriff sales listing to see my sale is scheduled, brushing up on FRCP and cases getting my complaint ready to file a moment the sale is scheduled. I am also in touch with other pro ses in the area who have experience in the Federal court.
We are in for a long battle. I could see sometime in the short future when I do not want/need the house anymore, I will hire an Competent attorney on contingent by giving him/her 33% of the sale proceed+winning, like a personal injury case. That would give them incentive to fight for me. In the meantime, I am enjoying my retirement. I have already won, 13 years of skipped payments allowing me to send 2 kids to college, a fight worth fighting for. Have a plan and execute but don't let it consume you. Can't take the house with you.

Cheers.
 

Luca Bayon

LoanSafe Guide
Hi Team, I have some AWESOME news. We can now take care of these Charged-Off toxic 2nd Liens (Real Time Resolutions Inc, etc) with something called a HELOAN. This replaces the second mortgage without messing with the first.

It's a 30yr Fixed Rate Product... This can help HUNDREDS of people who are trying to get rid of their nightmare 2nd Liens!
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Hey Isis, yes it's all about Chinese Algebra!
I found an interesting argument couching anticipatory repudiation in terms of conditions precedent (and control of such). There are other items that look interesting in support of the excuse of the duty to perform where duty has been thwarted by an (anticipatory) breach of contract. In re Food Management Group, LLC, 372 BR 171 - Bankr. Court, SD New York 2007 is a bankruptcy case and federal analysis in NY.

"It is true that a condition precedent may be excused if the party whose performance is predicated on that condition somehow blocks its occurrence. `It is a well settled and salutary rule that a party cannot insist upon a condition precedent, when its non-performance has been caused by himself") (citations omitted); A H.A. Gen. Constr., Inc. v. New York City Hons. Auth., 92 N.Y.2d 20, 31, 677 N.Y.S.2d 9, 699 N.E.2d 368 (N.Y.1998) ("A condition precedent is linked to the implied obligation of a party not to `do anything which will have the effect of destroying or injuring the right of the other party to receive the fruits of the 193*193 contract'") (citation omitted) ---- Note a long list here, many examples to choose

And

The Doctrine of Prevention of Performance is articulated in RESTATEMENT (FIRST) OF CONTRACTS § 295 (1932) as follows:

§ 295 Excuse Of Condition By Prevention Or Hindrance

If a promisor prevents or hinders the occurrence of a condition, or the performance of a return promise, and the condition would have occurred or the performance of the return promise been rendered except for such prevention or hindrance, the condition is excused, and the actual or threatened nonperformance of the return promise does not discharge the promisor's duty, unless

(a) the prevention or hindrance by the promisor is caused or justified by the conduct or pecuniary circumstances of the other party, or

(b) the terms of the contract are such that the risk of such prevention or hindrance as occurs is assumed by the other party.

My personal thoughts are how can a servicer control notices and contracts and not fulfill those elements of incomplete performance (and conditions precedent) which ultimately thwart the fruits of the contract and use that as a basis for foreclosure? You know, things such as not returning a counter-signed document, refusing to apply payments and declaring default through their own non-performance or actually sending notices affecting rights to cure, etc. In particular, for example, Ocwen has a pattern and practice that is well documented that it delayed notices (substantially beyond the time to respond) and prevented performance of obligations incurred by the delayed notices (borrower's performance thwarted). We all have individual examples of such shennanigans that destroy the contract and performance at the hands of the lender. I have couched these as lack of good faith and fair dealing, which is based on the lender's ability to perform according to its own discretion and not in contract (because contract is silent as to things like timing).
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Hellllllllo my friend,,,,I am still here and in my home thanks to you FIRST and all others. If you were not here and holding my hand I was GONE. I mean the house and me, both. Thank you, thank you and thank you...Keep in touch..RAZMIK B.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Thanks, my dude. I'm happy you're still in your home and that I was helpful. I'm often concerned I've encouraged people to fight back and it hasn't worked out for them. But then again our success rate is awesome compared to people that don't stand up for their rights.

Last time you checked in it sounded like your payments were outrageous. I hope you were able to get affordable and sustainable terms.
 

razmik

LoanSafe Member
Thanks, my dude. I'm happy you're still in your home and that I was helpful. I'm often concerned I've encouraged people to fight back and it hasn't worked out for them. But then again our success rate is awesome compared to people that don't stand up for their rights.

Last time you checked in it sounded like your payments were outrageous. I hope you were able to get affordable and sustainable terms.
Thank you again. yes it was couple of years ago or 3 but we didn't go through modification. Instead the lawyer filed a lawsuit. Now we are in appeal stage. My lawyer is getting tired, I guess. She keeps saying lawsuit will end and at one point I either have to give up and go to foreclosure or do modification. My loan and as they said the unpaid balance is very high and close to whatever the property is worth. I am paying her every month but she says it is cheaper than your payments so we just continue as much as we can.
I was thinking when she quits I go through CFPB complain portal but I am not sure if it works. Do you know anything about that? I just read yesterday that some court through them out of something. I have to get some details.

About 4 or 5 months ago I got a letter from MR. COOPER saying that they are going to refer me to their foreclosure department. As of today we don't have that. Again, my lawyer says all the servicers starting to go that route and are not doing modifications. I always help her with information rather she helps me.
What else I can do at this point. Do you think I can start a new set of complaint or lawsuit with another lawyer, if she quits?
 

Javagold

LoanSafe Member
Thank you again. yes it was couple of years ago or 3 but we didn't go through modification. Instead the lawyer filed a lawsuit. Now we are in appeal stage. My lawyer is getting tired, I guess. She keeps saying lawsuit will end and at one point I either have to give up and go to foreclosure or do modification. My loan and as they said the unpaid balance is very high and close to whatever the property is worth. I am paying her every month but she says it is cheaper than your payments so we just continue as much as we can.
I was thinking when she quits I go through CFPB complain portal but I am not sure if it works. Do you know anything about that? I just read yesterday that some court through them out of something. I have to get some details.

About 4 or 5 months ago I got a letter from MR. COOPER saying that they are going to refer me to their foreclosure department. As of today we don't have that. Again, my lawyer says all the servicers starting to go that route and are not doing modifications. I always help her with information rather she helps me.
What else I can do at this point. Do you think I can start a new set of complaint or lawsuit with another lawyer, if she quits?
1. You need tell her to repay all your money you paid her , if she quits on you , before a resolution has Been reached.
2. Do NOT count on CFPB helping in anyway. They are basically a total waste of time.
3. Fight the Fraudclosure if/when it happens.
 

razmik

LoanSafe Member
Thank you Javagold, I was fighting foreclosure for last 12 years and the first 7-8 years without a lawyer but last few years I had to because they were putting sale dates after sale dates. My question is if the lawsuit is dismissed can I file another one.
According to her in California courts all the things about fraud, robo signing, Mers, fradualent documents, phony transfers and and everything we know does not work anymore and judges throw them out.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Been tracking sheriff sales in my county. Listings are popping up. Apparently, there are new buyers of the pending judgements. Quite a few of assignments of judgements and new writs of execution filed, including mine. Maybe Rithm (old NewRez) exercised a bunch of call rights and closed a few trusts.

Just want to echo what Isisis said, those who are in litigation, watch out for Statue of limitation of FFDCPA, fraud claims. The opposing will wait till they expire then act. Cheers, fight on...
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
1. You need tell her to repay all your money you paid her , if she quits on you , before a resolution has Been reached.
2. Do NOT count on CFPB helping in anyway. They are basically a total waste of time.
3. Fight the Fraudclosure if/when it happens.
Not just the CFPB, all the government entities won't help but not waste of time. Even the Oregon state courts say if your corporate name including "BANK" you can forge the notes, use the name of a trustee BANK to steal the house and we won't stop you.:):):). However, need to file complaints to document the fraud but don't expect anything out of it. You have to fight on your own.
 

Javagold

LoanSafe Member
Been tracking sheriff sales in my county. Listings are popping up. Apparently, there are new buyers of the pending judgements. Quite a few of assignments of judgements and new writs of execution filed, including mine. Maybe Rithm (old NewRez) exercised a bunch of call rights and closed a few trusts.

Just want to echo what Isisis said, those who are in litigation, watch out for Statue of limitation of FFDCPA, fraud claims. The opposing will wait till they expire then act. Cheers, fight on...
Do you if we Are able to fight the Writ of Executions and/or the Sheriffs Sale before they take place ???? And if so. How best to. ( I’m in NJ).
 
Top