Settling a 2nd mortgage in default

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
We don't know if they will try to foreclose without initiating a (judicial) lawsuit or not. But they DO have to file certain documents in a NON-judicial action. Edit - possible to contact your county clerk to get information via phone on how to track such filings
They claim there is enough equity for it to be of an interest to them to proceed. They think it estimates at 294k and they claim I owe $135k 1st, there is no way its value is that and said that on phone (sls mentioned getting an appraisal then to contest that to help explain)
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Ok, then this also means there is equity to settle or sell without going through a foreclosure. You need information on Michigan FC law and any local moratoriums on evictions and foreclosure sales of occupied property during the pandemic.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Ok, then this also means there is equity to settle or sell without going through a foreclosure. You need information on Michigan FC law and any local moratoriums on evictions and foreclosure sales of occupied property during the pandemic.
Yeah. Looking into that info now. I'm sure they will settle for ALL the equity leaving me purchasing this house technically at today's market. I went through a lot to get that 1st approved via a government. Loan mod and keep this house through bk7. Now they can swoop in and take all the gains? Its nuts! Obviously, the bk7 being discharged 14 yrs ago...I'm wiser. I did not now this could occur. I believe they are just servicing, county title does not show them at all.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Anyone ever hire an attorney? This seems so messed up that BOA holding both 1st and 2nd offer me a government loan mod but let this Second sit out there till they can swoop in foreclosure and recovery their losses.
 

JohnFL

LoanSafe Member
Unfortunately I think this happened alot more than we know. Deutsche Bank did the same thing to me. They owned 2nd which was in default. They then bought 1st and offered a mod on 1st. Then never heard a thing about 2nd. Still havent heard anything. I only found this out by doing my own investigation. This all happened in 2008/09. This was a big scam. They will just wait until you sell, or die. Then tell your family they own the property because you owe xxx,xxx on 2nd mortgage. Pretty good deal for them. The American people get screwed again. I don't understand how they can continue to charge interest without ever notifying you. I have not heard anything about my 2nd mortgage for over 11 years. Good Luck!!
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Unfortunately I think this happened alot more than we know. Deutsche Bank did the same thing to me. They owned 2nd which was in default. They then bought 1st and offered a mod on 1st. Then never heard a thing about 2nd. Still havent heard anything. I only found this out by doing my own investigation. This all happened in 2008/09. This was a big scam. They will just wait until you sell, or die. Then tell your family they own the property because you owe xxx,xxx on 2nd mortgage. Pretty good deal for them. The American people get screwed again. I don't understand how they can continue to charge interest without ever notifying you. I have not heard anything about my 2nd mortgage for over 11 years. Good Luck!!
Well keep your fingers crossed they do not start notifying you. I have randomly submitted a settlement letter based on the instructions provided here in the forum for 8 years. I would receive a response that seemed like I was reapplying for a loan, not agreeing to a lump settlement. NOW that market is on the ups they (2nd - debt discharged in BK7 in 2008) is requesting a payoff letter for the 1st (that I am current on and paying via a MHA loan mod).
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Do NOT give them any information on the first or the balance of it. They do not have means otherwise to request since account is not in their name. They just bean-counting and need the info on if it's profitable to foreclose or not. Don't help them.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Do NOT give them any information on the first or the balance of it. They do not have means otherwise to request since account is not in their name. They just bean-counting and need the info on if it's profitable to foreclose or not. Don't help them.
And if they foreclosure? Do I have any way to stop it? I already filed bk7 on this 13 yrs ago. My house a 1 student loan is my only debt.
How do I get them to discuss a settlement lump sum with out giving them that. Thats all the keep asking for. Received the attached, although I'm not sure what application they are claiming I filled out. I sent a QWR.

I'm literally an emotional roller-coaster. I read something and get an idea/hope then take to an attorney and the say nope, there's no law on that. I feel like the this legal robbery. They are going to take $ I put in to this house. Then that additional $60k interest, I'll pay interest onto of that when refinancing all of it.
 

Attachments

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Yes. You have a way to stop it. Answer the complaint. (which they appear not to have filed anything yet)

I'm no expert but I think SLS might be sending you required alternative offers trying to fulfill mandatory pre-foreclosure notices. Remember this when notices dont make sense. I would just file this for now. They may also send other "alternatives" and return checklist information requests. I think it's a means to provoke anxiety personally. Sometimes scaring people gets them to move or pay quicker. It's a collection tactic.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
In general, they have to give you 6 months to negotiate foreclosure alternatives and do a work out before they can foreclose. You have so much time to apply and be approved. If you don't respond then after 6 months, they will have fulfilled an "attempt" to offer alternative to foreclosure. Back in the great recession, this time was used for modification requests.

There is no way I would modify a second loan that had tripled due to interest. I might negotiate the balance just to get it off the books and stop annoying debt collection. Doubtful they have what they need to foreclose.

Times have changed. Just don't worry. You have support here.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
In general, they have to give you 6 months to negotiate foreclosure alternatives and do a work out before they can foreclose. You have so much time to apply and be approved. If you don't respond then after 6 months, they will have fulfilled an "attempt" to offer alternative to foreclosure. Back in the great recession, this time was used for modification requests.

There is no way I would modify a second loan that had tripled due to interest. I might negotiate the balance just to get it off the books and stop annoying debt collection. Doubtful they have what they need to foreclose.

Times have changed. Just don't worry. You have support here.
Thank you. Thank you. Back in 2010 I saved this house by finally getting approved for a loan mod on the 1st one day from sheriff sale. I thought this was all behind me. I can't sleep. This is supposed to be a magical time watching my 3yr old girl during Christmas and I'm running to the other room so she doesn't see me cry.

Is there a way to bypass. SLS and negotiate directly with NYB Mellon?
 

Jzone

LoanSafe Member
Here is foreclosure timeline in Michigan. Minimum of 6 months and can be up to 12 months. That timeline starts after foreclosure proceedings have started - which in your case, sounds like have not even started yet.
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From michigan.gov.

FORECLOSURE TIMELINE
Day 2-36: The mortgage payment is due on the 1st. If the mortgage is not paid on the 1st, it is considered delinquent on the 2nd. If the payment is late, late charges are assessed for each missed payment. The Lender/Servicer must make LIVE contact with the homeowners who missed their payment to inform the homeowner about loss mitigation options.

Ask your lender, “What are my options, what do I qualify for?”

Day 45:
The Lender/Servicer must assign a single point of contact to homeowner AND provide written notification of delinquency and loss mitigation options.


Big 5 Servicers: Bank of America, Chase, CitiMortgage, GMAC/Ally and Wells Fargo. These 5 servicers will designate an agent (law firm) to facilitate negotiations and attend a meeting with the homeowners.


During the time between Day 45 and Day 121: You can work with a lender to obtain a loan workout, a modification or other loss mitigation option. If your Lender allows you to make a partial payment – make it.


Do not agree to a workout plan if you cannot afford to make the payments.


Day 121:
If all attempts to resolve default are unsuccessful and a hardship application is not received, the foreclosure process begins. The Sheriff’s sale date is scheduled and then published in the county newspaper for four (4) consecutive weeks with details of the debt. Notice of the sale date gets posted on the property within two (2) weeks of the first publication.


Sheriff Sale Held: The "Sheriff's Deed" lists the last date the property can be redeemed. Up until the Sheriff Sale has occurred, the homeowner may still submit a loss mitigation application.


Six (6) months: The Redemption Period starts day of Sheriff Sale – Six (6) months is most common. If the amount claimed to be due on the mortgage at the date of foreclosure is less than 2/3 of the original indebtedness, the redemption period is 12 months. Farming property can be up to twelve (12) months.


The homeowner can live in the property, is not required to make payments, can sell or buy back property and should - *maintain the property - *maintain utilities - *maintain insurance. The homeowner must allow the purchaser to inspect the home and all structures during the redemption period.


To redeem the property the borrower must pay the amount bid at the sheriff sale plus interest and fees.


Redemption Period Expires: Home Inspections: If an inspection is unreasonably refused or if damage to the property is imminent or has occurred, the purchaser of the property at the Sheriff Sale may immediately begin eviction proceedings to seek possession and terminate the homeowner’s redemption period. Once you move out, the purchaser (normally the lender) may take action to gain possession of the abandoned property.


EVICTION: At the end of the redemption period if you have not already vacated the home you will receive a Summons to appear in court. At the hearing, a date is set for the Sheriff to physically remove you from the property, if necessary.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Here is foreclosure timeline in Michigan. Minimum of 6 months and can be up to 12 months. That timeline starts after foreclosure proceedings have started - which in your case, sounds like have not even started yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From michigan.gov.

FORECLOSURE TIMELINE
Day 2-36: The mortgage payment is due on the 1st. If the mortgage is not paid on the 1st, it is considered delinquent on the 2nd. If the payment is late, late charges are assessed for each missed payment. The Lender/Servicer must make LIVE contact with the homeowners who missed their payment to inform the homeowner about loss mitigation options.

Ask your lender, “What are my options, what do I qualify for?”

Day 45:
The Lender/Servicer must assign a single point of contact to homeowner AND provide written notification of delinquency and loss mitigation options.


Big 5 Servicers: Bank of America, Chase, CitiMortgage, GMAC/Ally and Wells Fargo. These 5 servicers will designate an agent (law firm) to facilitate negotiations and attend a meeting with the homeowners.


During the time between Day 45 and Day 121: You can work with a lender to obtain a loan workout, a modification or other loss mitigation option. If your Lender allows you to make a partial payment – make it.


Do not agree to a workout plan if you cannot afford to make the payments.


Day 121:
If all attempts to resolve default are unsuccessful and a hardship application is not received, the foreclosure process begins. The Sheriff’s sale date is scheduled and then published in the county newspaper for four (4) consecutive weeks with details of the debt. Notice of the sale date gets posted on the property within two (2) weeks of the first publication.


Sheriff Sale Held: The "Sheriff's Deed" lists the last date the property can be redeemed. Up until the Sheriff Sale has occurred, the homeowner may still submit a loss mitigation application.


Six (6) months: The Redemption Period starts day of Sheriff Sale – Six (6) months is most common. If the amount claimed to be due on the mortgage at the date of foreclosure is less than 2/3 of the original indebtedness, the redemption period is 12 months. Farming property can be up to twelve (12) months.


The homeowner can live in the property, is not required to make payments, can sell or buy back property and should - *maintain the property - *maintain utilities - *maintain insurance. The homeowner must allow the purchaser to inspect the home and all structures during the redemption period.


To redeem the property the borrower must pay the amount bid at the sheriff sale plus interest and fees.


Redemption Period Expires: Home Inspections: If an inspection is unreasonably refused or if damage to the property is imminent or has occurred, the purchaser of the property at the Sheriff Sale may immediately begin eviction proceedings to seek possession and terminate the homeowner’s redemption period. Once you move out, the purchaser (normally the lender) may take action to gain possession of the abandoned property.


EVICTION: At the end of the redemption period if you have not already vacated the home you will receive a Summons to appear in court. At the hearing, a date is set for the Sheriff to physically remove you from the property, if necessary.
2 to 36 days is quite the time span lol

This forum seems to have more knowledge about this topic than most attorneys I've spoken to. Wanted to just seek opinions in the below and if applicable. I cannot recall the last payment date made or if I even paid at all. Looks like on a recent statement vs. Borrowed amount there is only a $200 difference so idk. Loan was signed in 2006. Just not sure by them sending me letters/statements is viewed as an action to accelerate and would void the 15 yr sol below

Time Limits on Foreclosure Michigan Law limits the time during which a mortgage may be foreclosed. This time limitation is found in a statute of limitations which reads, “[n]o person shall bring or maintain any action or proceeding to foreclose a mortgage on real estate unless he commences the action or proceeding within 15 years after the mortgage becomes due or within 15 years after the last payment was made on the mortgage. This section limits
foreclosure by advertisement and any other entries under the mortgage as well as actions of foreclosure in the courts.” MCL § 600.5803. In other words, foreclosure must be commenced within 15 years after the loan
becomes fully due (including if the total amount due is accelerated after default), or within 15 years from the last payment
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Here is foreclosure timeline in Michigan. Minimum of 6 months and can be up to 12 months. That timeline starts after foreclosure proceedings have started - which in your case, sounds like have not even started yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From michigan.gov.

FORECLOSURE TIMELINE
Day 2-36: The mortgage payment is due on the 1st. If the mortgage is not paid on the 1st, it is considered delinquent on the 2nd. If the payment is late, late charges are assessed for each missed payment. The Lender/Servicer must make LIVE contact with the homeowners who missed their payment to inform the homeowner about loss mitigation options.

Ask your lender, “What are my options, what do I qualify for?”

Day 45:
The Lender/Servicer must assign a single point of contact to homeowner AND provide written notification of delinquency and loss mitigation options.


Big 5 Servicers: Bank of America, Chase, CitiMortgage, GMAC/Ally and Wells Fargo. These 5 servicers will designate an agent (law firm) to facilitate negotiations and attend a meeting with the homeowners.


During the time between Day 45 and Day 121: You can work with a lender to obtain a loan workout, a modification or other loss mitigation option. If your Lender allows you to make a partial payment – make it.


Do not agree to a workout plan if you cannot afford to make the payments.


Day 121:
If all attempts to resolve default are unsuccessful and a hardship application is not received, the foreclosure process begins. The Sheriff’s sale date is scheduled and then published in the county newspaper for four (4) consecutive weeks with details of the debt. Notice of the sale date gets posted on the property within two (2) weeks of the first publication.


Sheriff Sale Held: The "Sheriff's Deed" lists the last date the property can be redeemed. Up until the Sheriff Sale has occurred, the homeowner may still submit a loss mitigation application.


Six (6) months: The Redemption Period starts day of Sheriff Sale – Six (6) months is most common. If the amount claimed to be due on the mortgage at the date of foreclosure is less than 2/3 of the original indebtedness, the redemption period is 12 months. Farming property can be up to twelve (12) months.


The homeowner can live in the property, is not required to make payments, can sell or buy back property and should - *maintain the property - *maintain utilities - *maintain insurance. The homeowner must allow the purchaser to inspect the home and all structures during the redemption period.


To redeem the property the borrower must pay the amount bid at the sheriff sale plus interest and fees.


Redemption Period Expires: Home Inspections: If an inspection is unreasonably refused or if damage to the property is imminent or has occurred, the purchaser of the property at the Sheriff Sale may immediately begin eviction proceedings to seek possession and terminate the homeowner’s redemption period. Once you move out, the purchaser (normally the lender) may take action to gain possession of the abandoned property.


EVICTION: At the end of the redemption period if you have not already vacated the home you will receive a Summons to appear in court. At the hearing, a date is set for the Sheriff to physically remove you from the property, if necessary.
Also wanted to ask where can I even find if they begun foreclosure advertisements of property? I've looked everywhere online...
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
JZone - I have different data on SOL - Michigan law updated in 2018 here and current thru 2021

Cookie Mom does have a defense to foreclosure given they only have 10 years to collect on it and she has not made payment on the second during that time. Any additional payment would reset SOL. Also, she can bankrupt BK7 again and stall out any kind of sale for 3 months if/when needed. One can do BK7 every 8 years I believe so that's an option for time just wait as long as possible to do it.

Michigan Legislature - Section 600.5807

REVISED JUDICATURE ACT OF 1961 (EXCERPT)
Act 236 of 1961

600.5807 Damages for breach of contract; specific performance; period of limitations; bond; deed; mortgage; surety bond; appeal bond; public obligations; other actions.

Sec. 5807.

(1) A person may not bring or maintain an action to recover damages or money due for breach of contract or to enforce the specific performance of a contract unless, after the claim first accrued to the person or to someone through whom the person claims, the person commences the action within the applicable period prescribed by this section.
(2) The period of limitations on an action charging a surety on a bond of a personal representative or guardian is 4 years after the discharge of the personal representative or guardian.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in this section or another statute of this state, the period of limitations is 10 years for an action founded on a bond of a public officer.
(4) The period of limitations on an action founded on a bond executed under sections 80 and 81 of 1846 RS 16, MCL 41.80 and 41.81, is 2 years after the expiration of the year for which the constable was elected.
(5) The period of limitations is 10 years for an action founded on a covenant in a deed or mortgage of real estate.
(6) Except as otherwise provided in another statute of this state, the period of limitations is 2 years for an action charging a surety for costs.
(7) The period of limitations is 2 years for an action brought on a bond or recognizance given on appeal from a court in this state.
(8) The period of limitations is 10 years for an action on a bond, note, or other like instrument that is the direct or indirect obligation of, or was issued by although not the obligation of, this state or a county, city, village, township, school district, special assessment district, or other public or quasi-public corporation in this state.
(9) The period of limitations is 6 years for an action to recover damages or money due for breach of contract that is not described in subsections (2) to (8).



History:
1961, Act 236, Eff. Jan. 1, 1963 ;-- Am. 2018, Act 15, Eff. May 7, 2018
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Also wanted to ask where can I even find if they begun foreclosure advertisements of property? I've looked everywhere online...
There should be a public notice advertisement (online foreclosure sales list) from the County somewhere. Possibly the Master Commissioner. You are NOT at that stage yet. They would be posting notices on your door with the sale date when it happens. My guess is you still have 3-6 months for them to "inform you" of your foreclosure avoidance options.
 

cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
Here's the full link on Michigan SOL - weird that what CookieMom has is 15 and elsewhere it is 10 in same Chapter
(also notable is laches - ie it is arguable that they waited too long to foreclose independent of SOL)
Michigan Legislature - 236-1961-58
Well 10 yrs would apply, found an old statement of payment in 08. (Bubble burst there with the 15yrs) I have red tons of cases where the judge declined the motion if it did not reach 15 yrs. Rulings were done in 2020 too, so after the revision to that section
 
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