Success in Settling 2nds-cont'd

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Chasegame2019

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Chasegame here. I had to post here because this Loansafe website has a technical glitch that Moe and Erik are attempting to fix. I wanted to answer questions that were asked of me, in order to help others as they have helped me. Let's see if this post actually publishes before I get into my timeline etc. If someone, anyone, can post a reply here, then I will know we're good to go! Thanks all!
 
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chasegame

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2013
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  • Thanks Alwayshopeful. LONG post here but i think the timeline may be helpful to others. Stats at the time we decided to try Tom Eason's Strategy for Settling 2nd's- Original WAMU 1st and second which went to Chase. These are both refi's. California property. Zillow home value $600K in 2015. Chase 1st was $590K. Chase 2nd (HELOC) was $200K+. Business trauma resulted in personal Chap 7 BK which discharged 2013.
  • Stopped making payments to Chase on the 2nd ($200k+) in Aug 2012
  • Chase calling frequently, we offer verbally 2% to settle, they suggest making small payment to 'show good faith'. NO.
  • Written offer to Chase to settle for approx 2% later in 2012, they declined.
  • After filing Chp 7, we sent Chase a Cease and Desist, with written communication only.
  • Jan 2013, they sent letter requesting financials to consider our settlement offer. We replied stating all our financials they already had access to, because they were listed in our BK filings and again we offered 2%.
  • Approx June 2013 Chase charged off loan and said they had "sold it to Real Time Resolutions in Feb 2013".
  • Approx June 2013, calls began from RTR. In June I sent them a letter referring to the offers to settle with Chase of 2%. In one phone call with them they offered to settle at $200,000. So, I increased the offer to around 3%.
  • July 2013 got a call from RTR saying 3% offer was declined and there was no counter offer. They suggested they could offer a 'payment plan' blah blah blah. NO, again I offered 3%.
  • August 2013, new person at RTR called and suggested payments of $25, or $50, or whatever at 0% interest 'until you get back on your feet'. I kept insisting we try to settle lump sum or nothing. After considerable (friendly) back and forth, out of nowhere she says 'Chase countered at $55,000". Shocked and excited (but not letting her know) I felt we had a breakthrough. I told her we didn't have $55,000 but out of respect I would consider it and "call her next week, or she should call me". Note- I had no intention of calling her and if she called me I would offer 3% again. : )
  • Sept 2013, since she didn't call, I sent a letter declining their offer of $55,000 (this was to establish it in writing) and again offered 3%.
  • Mid Sept 2013- new person at RTR calls me. More aggressive. Pushing for financials. Said 3% wouldn't work and said I better go with a Plan B (start making payments etc). No.
  • End Sept 2013- she calls me and again (!) pushes for financials and says with the documentation "Chase could possibly approve a settlement between $44,000 and $51,000". She was relentless and argumentative about what was 'best for us' to provide documentation. I again said, you have access to all our financials through the Chp7 filing. Finally, she offered $65,000 with no documentation. I said no and again offered 3%- but was SO excited we appeared to be making progress. My notes say to stop answering their calls.
  • Nov 2013-they (RTR) call me again. I recognize their number and do not answer.
  • Dec 2013-they (RTR) call me again. I recognize their number and do not answer.
  • January 2014- RTR sends me a standard form letter with a Loss Mitigation Application to fill out in order to qualify for 'several repayment options they have for me'. I ignore it.
  • January 2014- Call from RTR which I answer. Pleasant, but again suggested financials. Acknowledged their offer to settle of $44,000 to $51,000 and my counter of 3%. Told her that's all we can do. she was polite and said 'they will get back to me if there was some sort of 'settlement campaign' started that might be favorable for us'. ??? I thought maybe this was part of Chase's settlement with the DOJ ????
  • February 2014- Call from RTR that I did not answer,
  • June 2014- Call from RTR that I didn't answer.
  • July 2014- Call from RTR to our fax machine (huh?)
  • Mid July 2014- Call from new person at RTR. Confirmed $51,000 as last offer from Chase and $44,000 with financials. Said Chase generally won't change the offer without financials, blah blah blah. He asked if he could call again and I said 'no, lets communicate by mail only because these calls are not working'. He noted my file as such and then suggested I start making payments to show good faith and then Chase may agree to lower settlement offer. Yeah right.
  • November 2014- I called RTR and was told my file was returned to Chase at the end of July 2014.
  • December 2014- I write Chase, stating their offer of $44,000 (to again memorialize it!!) could not be met and increased our offer to 3 1/2%.
  • Mid December 2014- I get a form letter from Chase acknowledging my letter and stating they are 'researching the issue' and will send a letter once their review is completed.
  • NO COMMUNICATION EVER RECEIVED
  • April 2016- after reading too many internet stories : ), I send Chase two separate 'qualified written request' letters on our Chase 1st and this Chase 2nd asking them to provide us the 'actual note holders' on these loans.
  • May 2016- Chase responds letting us know our 1st is actually owned by Deutche Bank, and our 2nd is owned by Chase. Both loans were being serviced by Chase.
  • June 2019- out of nowhere I receive a Full Release and Reconveyance of our 2nd from Chase (over $200k). I even drove to the County Recorder to verify it, plus called Chase to be sure it wasn't sold to someone else etc. They confirmed-full release.
So here is the head scratcher in all of this. Current Zillow home value at time of release was over $900,000. 1st TD balance is under $450,000. Of course i'm not complaining, just can't grasp the logic??
 
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Chasegame2019

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You're welcome Alwayshopeful. I'm curious what others on this website think is the reason for this release ?. Moe? Erik? Wanda? Cat? Others? Your opinions and insight may help others out there and that's the reason I posted the timeline. Was it an unknown DOJ requirement of Chase? Was it our BK? Did we expose something when asking about the actual note holders? Could it be the combination of everything in our timeline? Any feedback or comments could really be gold for others.
 

Jzone

LoanSafe Member
Jun 20, 2017
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Great news for you! I am in similar situation. Filed chapter 7 and have kept current on 1st but stopped paying on 2nd three years ago. It was with CitiMortgage. They sold/transferred the lien to United Guaranty- basically a debt collector.

They contact me about every 6 months, sometimes by phone other times in writing. I have sent them letters that they may contact me with settlement offers only in writing.

I see that your situation went on for about 7 years. I am in no hurry to sell my home, so I will keep waiting. Balance on second was around $50,000 when discharged in bankruptcy, so they only hold the lein and cant sue me for the balance. However, there is always the chance they may try to foreclose some day as my 1st mortgage balance keeps getting lower.

Looks like the strategy of limited communication, making low settlement offers and not appearing eager to settle is still working in 2019.
 
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Chasegame2019

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I sometimes think that along with the huge fines these banks had to pay, there must also be some highly confidential 'agreements' the banks had to make to settle with the Feds regarding certain loans and consumer situations. Example- you (banks) can't sue or foreclose on these types of loans or situations, ever, but if you get paid back by refi or sale, fine. Then after x many years, you must release the lien or face additional fines etc.

I do recall seeing a shaded map of the entire U.S. where there were 'zones' established where banks would get bonus points per se for negotiating settlements or re-fi's of bad loans. I remember this clearly because my home was NOT in the shaded areas. I was surrounded by shaded areas but my town was not in them and this also caused me great concern-like they knew my area's home values would come roaring back......which they did.
 

bigfrog

LoanSafe Member
Aug 31, 2011
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Chasegame... Congrats... I think you were just one of the lucky ones. The second probably messed up something during the transactions.. Or somebody working in those departments just felt like helping someone..

But you might be on to something... They wouldn't foreclose on me, after 10years.. even now, that my house has over 200k in equity.. go figure...
 
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Chasegame2019

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I just can't believe that ANY bank would just walk away from over $200k. At the same time though, one would think that by now, there would be some former bank 'insiders' who would be sharing info to the general public about situations like this. Again, anyone out there that may have a clue or opinion, please share!! You could help someone that really needs it.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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I think they took some of the books and foreclosed others. They are wrapping up. You got a great deal!
 
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Chasegame2019

Guest
Just received a DM from someone in NY that recently got their second released, with a very similar timeline and equity. About $100k. Wells. Erik? Moe? what are you guys hearing??? something is going on..
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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I just can't believe that ANY bank would just walk away from over $200k. At the same time though, one would think that by now, there would be some former bank 'insiders' who would be sharing info to the general public about situations like this. Again, anyone out there that may have a clue or opinion, please share!! You could help someone that really needs it.
If you ask me... I believe that Chase is probably getting a huge tax credit, or... using these loans in particular to satisfy restitution for lending practices during the Boom. Another member on here, had a Fannie Mae loan that was purchased by Goldman Sachs, and used to fulfill a RMBS settlement.

From what I can tell - It's far less expensive to take a distressed loan and use it as a credit, than to pay out the actual money.
 
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Chasegame2019

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If you ask me... I believe that Chase is probably getting a huge tax credit, or... using these loans in particular to satisfy restitution for lending practices during the Boom. Another member on here, had a Fannie Mae loan that was purchased by Goldman Sachs, and used to fulfill a RMBS settlement.

From what I can tell - It's far less expensive to take a distressed loan and use it as a credit, than to pay out the actual money.
That makes a lot of sense to me- releasing my loan and then using it as a 'credit' to offset restitution fines they owe to the Feds. There probably is a % bonus for doing it.

Your comment about Goldman is fascinating. If true, Goldman buys a bad loan for pennies on the dollar and then uses the same loan at face value and 'dollars on the dollar' to pay fines it owes to the Feds. Brilliant. Creative. They are essentially printing money.

We, as taxpayers though, should know exactly what the deal (s) are that the Feds made with the banks.
 
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My lost decade plus

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I'm so glad I found this site. It's been 7 years since we stopped paying on our 2nd, We also filed a bk 7 years ago. Every year they , SLS, send us a threatening letter then nothing. This year their letter threatened foreclosure so I called them. I talked to Aturo and told him we want to keep our home and ask for a payoff. Nothing no payoff. Tonight I got another call from Autor and I hung up on him. I was walking into a meeting and couldn't talk anyway. I'm feeling very nervous as our home is right side up. We couldn't live anywhere for as little and we are still struggling from having lost my job in 2007.
 
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Chasegame2019

Guest
My two cents- Every situation is different but I think you're making a mistake in telling SLS you want to stay in the home. Re-read Tom Eason's 'Strategy for Settling Seconds' here. Telling them you want to 'keep your home' sends them a signal that you probably are taking care of the home. This, in their minds, equates to less money SLS may need to spend to bring the house up to sellable condition if they foreclose. Remember, it's all about the math. The more money SLS estimates it will need to foreclose, rehab and re-sell, the less likely they will actually do it. Also, if you do decide to continue talking to them, stop calling it a 'home'. Call it a house. 'House' conveys less emotional attachment than 'home'. You want to appear dis-interested.

Also, think about what message you are sending them when you request a payoff. You're signaling you have, or may have, the resources to actually payoff the loan. I guarantee you, they are smiling and rubbing their hands together thinking they're going to get paid. Better strategy-send them a hardship type letter that includes a settlement offer of 2-3%.

Best of luck.
 

AnneRawls

LoanSafe Member
May 15, 2011
26
1
1
North Central Ohio
Was just reading this thread and decided to go to my county recorders website and see if anything was going on. I stopped paying my HELOC with Chase in 2011 after Chapter 7 BR. I tried to negotiate with them with the standard offers used successfully here but was only robo called for my trouble so I had to send them a cease and desist.
To my extreme surprise, today, I found that over a year ago, Chase released the lien on my house. There are no new liens. I did not receive any notice from them at all. So happy. Thanks for this forum and all who have responded and attempted to help. Best of luck to everyone. And check your records office. You might get a huge surprise like I did. :D
 
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Chasegame2019

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Woohoo AnneRawls!!!! Precisely why I was so adamant (with Erik) about updating/continuing this thread with my story. Hopefully others will also discover similar results, or at least use the negotiating tips and strategies that work. So happy for you and this makes me feel great too, thinking that maybe my story helped you in a small way too. Congrats!!
 
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