Harp 2.0 Problems with Wells Fargo

HOUSINGFEAR

LoanSafe Member
Feb 13, 2012
1
0
0
Is Wells Fargo allowed to do this?

I currently meet all the qualifications for the Harp 2.0 Refinance. The Wells Fargo mortgage broker told me I will have to wait until March 17th when the DU Refinance with no LTV limit goes live.

The problem is he is telling me I will need to pay for appraisal, and that there will be no cost savings on closing costs when refinancing to a shorter term mortgage. Everything I have read in the Harp 2.0 guidelines from Fannie And Freddie says that they are NOT allowed to charge me an appraisal fee and that I should save money by refinancing to a 15-20 year mortgage.

Is Wells Fargo allowed to change the rules like this?

1) It clearly states that no appraisal will be needed in the Fannie guidelines because the whole point of the program is to refinance your home even though its grossly underwater, and they already hold your mortgage. So why do they need to charge me 450 for an appraisal when it is not required by Fannie?

2) Why are they not waiving the origination fee like they are supposed to when I want to refinance to a 15 year mortgage which is deemed a more stable loan product?

I just want to make sure I am not getting screwed by my particular mortgage broker, or if this is a system wide Wells Fargo thing?
 

Cat Damiano

Mortgage Wars
Sep 10, 2007
10,541
39
48
Colorado
www.loansafe.org
Hi HOUSINGFEAR,



Welcome to the forum and thank you for joining............

Try contacting Erik and see if he can help answer your questions, he has helped many members with their HARP refi questions.

He can be reached here;

Erik Sandstrom
Direct:
(619)379-8999
[email protected]
 

Erik Sandstrom

Mortgage Expert - Call 1-619-379-8999
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Jan 14, 2011
2,101
181
63
San Diego, California
www.loansreduced.com
Hi HousingFear,
Sorry to hear about the problems you've been facing with Wells Fargo, it wouldnt be the first time i've heard that.

I wanted to clarify a few things on this post so others can understand the process of HARP. HARP is the same thing as a conventional loan except the loan to value limits have been removed, both LTV and CLTV (Combined LTV). That means you will incur closing costs, now theres a few ways to structure a loan if that's what you're worried about. I will explain those below:

1. NO COST LOAN - Where you will get a higher interest rate however that will provide the lender a credit which they can apply towards closing costs. I would recommend this route if you're planning on selling the home in the near future (5 years).

2. Cost added to the balance - You can get a lower interest rate by adding your closing costs to the balance of your loan. This will vary from lender to lender. This is the route you should take if you're planning on staying in the home, you will pay much less interest over the term.

3. Coming out of pocket with the cost - you CAN do this, have any of MY clients chosen this direction? No, because many owe more than the home is worth - you're basically throwing good money after bad. This route will also get you a lower rate.

This is something that your loan officer should go over with you. Their job is to understand what your goals are for the property so they can give you the loan best suited to you and your family.

The appraisal waiver is something that has just been really implemented now, March 19th. Before running my files through it seemed that about 1 out of every 15 files would get a waiver. Now after seeing the new changes with HARP 2.0 - it seems as if 1 out of 5 is not getting a waiver. There is still a chance you may have to pay for an appraisal.

Hopefully this answers your questions, if you have any more feel free to get in touch.
 
Last edited:

UpInFLames

LoanSafe Member
Mar 26, 2012
1
0
0
Helpful to pass questions to Erik

I'm new to this forum but have been following its posts specifically regarding HARP 2 as we're exploring the possibility of approaching our current mortgage bank, Wells Fargo, with a request for a HARP 2 refinancing. As the rules are new and tweaked at each bank, it's been helpful to understand the some of the details of the revised program posted here as well as elsewhere. In addition, I also had a brief chat with Erik Sandstrom (619-3798999), who's also a forum member and deals with a lot of HARP 2 issues at his firm, and he's been very helpful in understanding some of the specific nuances of our refinancing situation. I'd definitely recommend posting questions here or contacting him. There are all kinds of official and unofficial rules around HARP 2, as with HARP 1, so it certainly helps to hash out uncertainties with someone who's been there and done that.
 

lck1288

LoanSafe Member
Aug 13, 2011
1
0
0
Hi Housingfear
I'm currently in the process of HARP 2 refi with M&T bank. This is the most recent information that the rep who is working with me sent to me. I'm guessing the Fannie Mae rules should be the same as listed here. It looks like Freddie Mac isn't requiring an appraisal, but Fannie Mae is.
See below


OK…it’s here! I just got out of a 3- hour meeting and M&T is proud to announce we have the official green light on these – finally! The only thing I do not have as of yet is the pricing of these loans which will be early next week. So at this point I do not know what the rate will be….with that said I am asking you to do a little homework for me to see if your loan / property will qualify for this new product. The great news is that there are NO RESTRICTIONS on Loan to value! It does not matter how upside down you are. IF you determine your loan is owned by FREDDIE MAC we will not even need an appraisal. IF your loan is owned by FANNIE MAE we will need an appraisal but the value will not matter. I also understand that income and assets will not be considered…so here are the steps I need you to do in order to qualify:


1) Please find out when your current loan closed. If it was before May of 2009 you will qualify. If it was after May 2009 you will not be eligible for this loan

2) Go to the below website to see if your loan is owned by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac


The new Harp 2 Refinance Program is for mortgage loans that are currently owned by Fannie Mae (FNMA) or Freddie Mac (FHLMC).

The FNMA site will work with just the address, the FHLMC site will also require the last 4 numbers of the borrower social security number.

To determine who owns your loan go to the following website:


Look Up Your Loan


3) You cannot of had any 30-day mortgage late payments within the last 12 months – that is a big one.

4) We must be able to verify a 2yr job history – at least 2 years on your current job or self –employment. It is OK if you have been in the same line of work for 2years but difference jobs

5) the new interest rate must be a 30 year fixed rates, Arms are not allowed.

6) Need to know if you have an existing 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] mortgage – if YES, the current 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] mortgage holder ie. Bank of America will be required to subordinate their 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] position to allow for our new first mortgage.

We can talk about how to proceed with that on another email..so just let me know if you have one now

7) if your current loan has PMI (private mortgage insurance) you will need it on the new loan. I will need the name and phone number of your current PMI company and the certificate number.

8) if yes to all of the above….and you feel you qualify, please fill out the attached loan application, sign the authorization for credit consent, and the DODD-FRANK form – this is a certification for all of these loans based and will be self-explanatory.


**please email me with any questions or concerns on this …..we are off and rolling!
 

Erik Sandstrom

Mortgage Expert - Call 1-619-379-8999
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Jan 14, 2011
2,101
181
63
San Diego, California
www.loansreduced.com
Hi Housingfear
I'm currently in the process of HARP 2 refi with M&T bank. This is the most recent information that the rep who is working with me sent to me. I'm guessing the Fannie Mae rules should be the same as listed here. It looks like Freddie Mac isn't requiring an appraisal, but Fannie Mae is.
See below


OK…it’s here! I just got out of a 3- hour meeting and M&T is proud to announce we have the official green light on these – finally! The only thing I do not have as of yet is the pricing of these loans which will be early next week. So at this point I do not know what the rate will be….with that said I am asking you to do a little homework for me to see if your loan / property will qualify for this new product. The great news is that there are NO RESTRICTIONS on Loan to value! It does not matter how upside down you are. IF you determine your loan is owned by FREDDIE MAC we will not even need an appraisal. IF your loan is owned by FANNIE MAE we will need an appraisal but the value will not matter. I also understand that income and assets will not be considered…so here are the steps I need you to do in order to qualify:


1) Please find out when your current loan closed. If it was before May of 2009 you will qualify. If it was after May 2009 you will not be eligible for this loan

2) Go to the below website to see if your loan is owned by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac


The new Harp 2 Refinance Program is for mortgage loans that are currently owned by Fannie Mae (FNMA) or Freddie Mac (FHLMC).

The FNMA site will work with just the address, the FHLMC site will also require the last 4 numbers of the borrower social security number.

To determine who owns your loan go to the following website:


Look Up Your Loan


3) You cannot of had any 30-day mortgage late payments within the last 12 months – that is a big one.

4) We must be able to verify a 2yr job history – at least 2 years on your current job or self –employment. It is OK if you have been in the same line of work for 2years but difference jobs

5) the new interest rate must be a 30 year fixed rates, Arms are not allowed.

6) Need to know if you have an existing 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] mortgage – if YES, the current 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] mortgage holder ie. Bank of America will be required to subordinate their 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] position to allow for our new first mortgage.

We can talk about how to proceed with that on another email..so just let me know if you have one now

7) if your current loan has PMI (private mortgage insurance) you will need it on the new loan. I will need the name and phone number of your current PMI company and the certificate number.

8) if yes to all of the above….and you feel you qualify, please fill out the attached loan application, sign the authorization for credit consent, and the DODD-FRANK form – this is a certification for all of these loans based and will be self-explanatory.


**please email me with any questions or concerns on this …..we are off and rolling!
Ick1288,
Thank you for sharing your e-mail from M&T bank there. Seems like people in the banking industry across the board are still very uneducated to the HARP program from that e-mail you received!

So they're stating:

1. No appraisals needed if it's a Freddie Mac loan - that's the 1st thing that's wrong, I guess I feel like critiquing his e-mail today so here it is: Freddie Mac has a HVE system (Home Value Estimator) this is built into Loan Prospector. This determines if you receive an appraisal waiver - it's basically the same as what's called an AVM (Automated Valuation Model). It checks the comparable sales in your area and if it's within a certain tolerance of it's confidence score, you receive a waiver. You will receive a waiver if you are between .000 and .200 - if you are under or over that tolerance unfortunately you will require an appraisal.

2. Income and assets will not be considered? Oh really? Not even a verbal Verification of Employment or documentation to back up the income? I won't even comment there, he dug himself his own hole.

And finally - you can only get a 30 year fixed mortgage. This is what many people want, but what about the people who want to shorten the term of the loan. Some people want 15 year fixed to pay the loan off much faster and take advantage of the difference in rates.

There is ONE positive to that e-mail: M&T bank is now doing HARP refinances!! Alright!

Depending on your state, I may be able to help. We are still one of the few lenders that has unlimited LTV.
 

nragone

LoanSafe Member
May 23, 2013
2
0
0
I'm also having a problem with Wells Fargo (current loan) in trying to get a HARP2 loan. First, then sent me a card in the mail saying I was qualified for a HARP2. I called the number on the card and the person I talked said that there would be no appraisal fee and then see went over options 1 and 3 below, had I known it was on the table I would have taken option 2 instead of option 1. That was the first problem to occur. Then after receiving loan docs in the mail, signing then and sending them back. Another person from Wells Fargo called me to tell me that he received the docs and everything looked good. He need a few more things for the underwriter that could fax or email to him, which I did. I short time later he called back to say that the underwriter signed off on it and now he was just waiting on the title search. I called back about a week later and said that the title search showed a Countrywide Home equity loan that had been paid off. He said that it was no problem that the title people were working with Bank of American to clear that up, and that if need be they could do a subordination. He gave me the old Countrywide loan number and while I was waiting for his title people to do their thing I called Bank of America. They couldn't find the loan in their system when searching by the loan number, my name, or my SSN. The person I talked to agree that the loan was non existent, but wouldn't or couldn't do anything to remove it from my deed. A short time later I walked into my local Bank of America branch and explain the situation to some one there. they opened an investigation. I was handed a piece of paper with a case number and a phone number to call if they didn't call me by a certain date. In the meantime, my contact at Wells Fargo kept putting me off saying the title people were working on it. The date I was suppose to hear back from Bank of America came and went with no call, so I called the number. The person had no idea what I was talking about even after I read everything of that sheet of paper. He put the case number in his PC and came up with nothing. I then went back to Bank of America and talked to my contact their and his manager. She looked it up in their system and found where they supposedly called me (date and time) at work. I told them that I was there, but received no call. She admitted that they dropped the ball. She gave me her name and phone number and asked me to ask my Wells Fargo contact to have his title people call her to give her to book number and page number where they found this loan on my deed and she would take care of it. She said once she had that info, she could clear this up in a day or two. I called him and gave him the message. He seemed excited and said he would pass it on immediately. That was a Friday. Wednesday evening I sent him an email asking for a status and letting him now that I was getting very agitated at all the delays. He called me five minutes later and said that the title people couldn't get it cleared up and that my once approved loan is no denied. I told him that I would be surprised if his title people never called my Bank of America people. He was surprised I said that, but I reminded him that Bank of America said it could be cleared up in a day or two, that all they needed was the Book # and Page #. He said I could reaply, yeah right. The next day I called Bank of America to see if they received a call on my behalf for a title company, Wells Fargo or anyone else and was told no. So now I have no loan for what in my opinion is Wells Fargo or their title company's incompetence. What can I do. Can I apply at another bank for a HARP2, or can one only get a HARP2 at the bank that has the 1st mortgage?

Hi HousingFear,
Sorry to hear about the problems you've been facing with Wells Fargo, it wouldnt be the first time i've heard that.

I wanted to clarify a few things on this post so others can understand the process of HARP. HARP is the same thing as a conventional loan except the loan to value limits have been removed, both LTV and CLTV (Combined LTV). That means you will incur closing costs, now theres a few ways to structure a loan if that's what you're worried about. I will explain those below:

1. NO COST LOAN - Where you will get a higher interest rate however that will provide the lender a credit which they can apply towards closing costs. I would recommend this route if you're planning on selling the home in the near future (5 years).

2. Cost added to the balance - You can get a lower interest rate by adding your closing costs to the balance of your loan. This will vary from lender to lender. This is the route you should take if you're planning on staying in the home, you will pay much less interest over the term.

3. Coming out of pocket with the cost - you CAN do this, have any of MY clients chosen this direction? No, because many owe more than the home is worth - you're basically throwing good money after bad. This route will also get you a lower rate.

This is something that your loan officer should go over with you. Their job is to understand what your goals are for the property so they can give you the loan best suited to you and your family.

The appraisal waiver is something that has just been really implemented now, March 19th. Before running my files through it seemed that about 1 out of every 15 files would get a waiver. Now after seeing the new changes with HARP 2.0 - it seems as if 1 out of 5 is not getting a waiver. There is still a chance you may have to pay for an appraisal.

Hopefully this answers your questions, if you have any more feel free to get in touch.
 

nragone

LoanSafe Member
May 23, 2013
2
0
0
I'm also having a problem with Wells Fargo (current loan) in trying to get a HARP2 loan. First, they sent me a card in the mail saying I was qualified for a HARP2. I called the number on the card and the person I talked said that there would be no appraisal fee and then see went over options 1 and 3 below, had I known it was on the table I would have taken option 2 instead of option 1. That was the first problem to occur. Then after receiving loan docs in the mail, signing then and sending them back. Another person from Wells Fargo called me to tell me that he received the docs and everything looked good. He need a few more things for the underwriter that could fax or email to him, which I did. I short time later he called back to say that the underwriter signed off on it and now he was just waiting on the title search. I called back about a week later and said that the title search showed a Countrywide Home equity loan that had been paid off. He said that it was no problem that the title people were working with Bank of American to clear that up, and that if need be they could do a subordination. He gave me the old Countrywide loan number and while I was waiting for his title people to do their thing I called Bank of America. They couldn't find the loan in their system when searching by the loan number, my name, or my SSN. The person I talked to agree that the loan was non existent, but wouldn't or couldn't do anything to remove it from my deed. A short time later I walked into my local Bank of America branch and explain the situation to some one there. they opened an investigation. I was handed a piece of paper with a case number and a phone number to call if they didn't call me by a certain date. In the meantime, my contact at Wells Fargo kept putting me off saying the title people were working on it. The date I was suppose to hear back from Bank of America came and went with no call, so I called the number. The person had no idea what I was talking about even after I read everything of that sheet of paper. He put the case number in his PC and came up with nothing. I then went back to Bank of America and talked to my contact their and his manager. She looked it up in their system and found where they supposedly called me (date and time) at work. I told them that I was there, but received no call. She admitted that they dropped the ball. She gave me her name and phone number and asked me to ask my Wells Fargo contact to have his title people call her to give her to book number and page number where they found this loan on my deed and she would take care of it. She said once she had that info, she could clear this up in a day or two. I called him and gave him the message. He seemed excited and said he would pass it on immediately. That was a Friday. Wednesday evening I sent him an email asking for a status and letting him now that I was getting very agitated at all the delays. He called me five minutes later and said that the title people couldn't get it cleared up and that my once approved loan is no denied. I told him that I would be surprised if his title people never called my Bank of America people. He was surprised I said that, but I reminded him that Bank of America said it could be cleared up in a day or two, that all they needed was the Book # and Page #. He said I could reaply, yeah right. The next day I called Bank of America to see if they received a call on my behalf for a title company, Wells Fargo or anyone else and was told no. So now I have no loan for what in my opinion is Wells Fargo or their title company's incompetence. What can I do. Can I apply at another bank for a HARP2, or can one only get a HARP2 at the bank that has the 1st mortgage?

Hi HousingFear,
Sorry to hear about the problems you've been facing with Wells Fargo, it wouldnt be the first time i've heard that.

I wanted to clarify a few things on this post so others can understand the process of HARP. HARP is the same thing as a conventional loan except the loan to value limits have been removed, both LTV and CLTV (Combined LTV). That means you will incur closing costs, now theres a few ways to structure a loan if that's what you're worried about. I will explain those below:

1. NO COST LOAN - Where you will get a higher interest rate however that will provide the lender a credit which they can apply towards closing costs. I would recommend this route if you're planning on selling the home in the near future (5 years).

2. Cost added to the balance - You can get a lower interest rate by adding your closing costs to the balance of your loan. This will vary from lender to lender. This is the route you should take if you're planning on staying in the home, you will pay much less interest over the term.

3. Coming out of pocket with the cost - you CAN do this, have any of MY clients chosen this direction? No, because many owe more than the home is worth - you're basically throwing good money after bad. This route will also get you a lower rate.

This is something that your loan officer should go over with you. Their job is to understand what your goals are for the property so they can give you the loan best suited to you and your family.

The appraisal waiver is something that has just been really implemented now, March 19th. Before running my files through it seemed that about 1 out of every 15 files would get a waiver. Now after seeing the new changes with HARP 2.0 - it seems as if 1 out of 5 is not getting a waiver. There is still a chance you may have to pay for an appraisal.

Hopefully this answers your questions, if you have any more feel free to get in touch.
 

Erik Sandstrom

Mortgage Expert - Call 1-619-379-8999
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Jan 14, 2011
2,101
181
63
San Diego, California
www.loansreduced.com
I'm also having a problem with Wells Fargo (current loan) in trying to get a HARP2 loan. First, then sent me a card in the mail saying I was qualified for a HARP2. I called the number on the card and the person I talked said that there would be no appraisal fee and then see went over options 1 and 3 below, had I known it was on the table I would have taken option 2 instead of option 1. That was the first problem to occur. Then after receiving loan docs in the mail, signing then and sending them back. Another person from Wells Fargo called me to tell me that he received the docs and everything looked good. He need a few more things for the underwriter that could fax or email to him, which I did. I short time later he called back to say that the underwriter signed off on it and now he was just waiting on the title search. I called back about a week later and said that the title search showed a Countrywide Home equity loan that had been paid off. He said that it was no problem that the title people were working with Bank of American to clear that up, and that if need be they could do a subordination. He gave me the old Countrywide loan number and while I was waiting for his title people to do their thing I called Bank of America. They couldn't find the loan in their system when searching by the loan number, my name, or my SSN. The person I talked to agree that the loan was non existent, but wouldn't or couldn't do anything to remove it from my deed. A short time later I walked into my local Bank of America branch and explain the situation to some one there. they opened an investigation. I was handed a piece of paper with a case number and a phone number to call if they didn't call me by a certain date. In the meantime, my contact at Wells Fargo kept putting me off saying the title people were working on it. The date I was suppose to hear back from Bank of America came and went with no call, so I called the number. The person had no idea what I was talking about even after I read everything of that sheet of paper. He put the case number in his PC and came up with nothing. I then went back to Bank of America and talked to my contact their and his manager. She looked it up in their system and found where they supposedly called me (date and time) at work. I told them that I was there, but received no call. She admitted that they dropped the ball. She gave me her name and phone number and asked me to ask my Wells Fargo contact to have his title people call her to give her to book number and page number where they found this loan on my deed and she would take care of it. She said once she had that info, she could clear this up in a day or two. I called him and gave him the message. He seemed excited and said he would pass it on immediately. That was a Friday. Wednesday evening I sent him an email asking for a status and letting him now that I was getting very agitated at all the delays. He called me five minutes later and said that the title people couldn't get it cleared up and that my once approved loan is no denied. I told him that I would be surprised if his title people never called my Bank of America people. He was surprised I said that, but I reminded him that Bank of America said it could be cleared up in a day or two, that all they needed was the Book # and Page #. He said I could reaply, yeah right. The next day I called Bank of America to see if they received a call on my behalf for a title company, Wells Fargo or anyone else and was told no. So now I have no loan for what in my opinion is Wells Fargo or their title company's incompetence. What can I do. Can I apply at another bank for a HARP2, or can one only get a HARP2 at the bank that has the 1st mortgage?
Oh Boy,
This sounds like a nightmare that you've been dealing with! Can you shoot me an e-mail when you have the chance on my contact information below. I want to see what I can do to help...this all sounds too strange for me especially with his statement that seems to be ongoing "I'm working with the title people to clear it up" -

You do absolutely have the ability to refinance with another lender, we are a direct lender endorsed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to offer the HARP program. We don't have any special overlays that Wells Fargo may have that seem to be running into road blocks. Not only that but our turn times for refinances are around 30 days when I have heard Wells Fargo is working on a 120 day turn time.

I would love to dive head first into your scenario to really get a picture of what exactly is going on.