Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
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I just found out, almost by accident I guess, that my FHA loan fell into the DASP hell hole. Did anyone have any success in arguing that your loan never should have gotten to DASP in the first place because the FHA guidelines were not filed? Technically the trust that owns the mortgage, shouldn't own it, it should be back with my original lender. My new trust is foreclosing on me because I broke the loan modification and I owe around 10K in default. At this point, cause i like the house, I might just say F-- it and do Chapter 13. My credit is so shot anyway, it aint worth the fight.

Success, NO. Arguing until I was blue in the face, yes. My loan was sold in HUD's 2014-1 sale.

I'm curious, how did you just find about your loan being in DASP. The last SFLS was in 2016...
 

wanda robo

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Sep 29, 2012
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I need to walk back some of my comments from yesterday. I fell for sensational media. It looks like protesting produced some positive results as well.


You know my girl, I'm going to say something I NEVER thought I'd say.

I asked hubby this morning" Why weren't there any protests or riots in Camden, NJ?"

Well there was one. It was peaceful & the protesters walked arm & arm with some police( the police chief, to be exact). It was peaceful. To be honest it would have been one of the last protests I would have ever showed up for. For God's sake. CAMDEN, NJ?

I can't tell you how proud I am for the residents of Camden, who showed up & took part in that protest...

I'm sorry I wasn't there, to be perfectly honest. There's still hope, my friend. Believe in people & maybe one day, they will deserve to be in your worthy thoughts & prayers & helpful advice. "It ain't over til the fat lady sings" my girl. We may still get to see it, in our life time......

Love you.
 

isisis

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Jun 22, 2010
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Totally, we all should have started that back in the days of OCCUPY. You'd think homeowners who'd had their homes stolen would have felt suitably outraged.

As for the ensuing violence from protests turned riots, if we were protesting the banks taking people's homes and their lives I could imagine myself being angry enough to put a rock through a bank window. Might have the self restraint or might not.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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Success, NO. Arguing until I was blue in the face, yes. My loan was sold in HUD's 2014-1 sale.

I'm curious, how did you just find about your loan being in DASP. The last SFLS was in 2016...
There are a few ways. ASM's are usually a good hint, a RESPA Request is another.

Honestly, I want to say this out loud. Bankruptcy is a great option for a lot of people. It's the Nuclear option, but for those with ridiculous investors, or terrible servicing companies -- it's a guaranteed path.

I'm steering down that barrel. I owe close to $15,000 in Mortgage Payments, in addition, to an insane amount of money in Delinquent Interest & Escrow Payments on another home. I have great credit right now, re-established myself, and hate to walk away from it. But... it's starting to look likely.

Like I said -- the Nuclear Option. It should inspire hope for a lot of people.
 

dutchflamengo

LoanSafe Member
Aug 26, 2014
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There are a few ways. ASM's are usually a good hint, a RESPA Request is another.

Honestly, I want to say this out loud. Bankruptcy is a great option for a lot of people. It's the Nuclear option, but for those with ridiculous investors, or terrible servicing companies -- it's a guaranteed path.

I'm steering down that barrel. I owe close to $15,000 in Mortgage Payments, in addition, to an insane amount of money in Delinquent Interest & Escrow Payments on another home. I have great credit right now, re-established myself, and hate to walk away from it. But... it's starting to look likely.

Like I said -- the Nuclear Option. It should inspire hope for a lot of people.
 

arrgy

LoanSafe Member
Apr 19, 2019
12
3
3
Success, NO. Arguing until I was blue in the face, yes. My loan was sold in HUD's 2014-1 sale.

I'm curious, how did you just find about your loan being in DASP. The last SFLS was in 2016...
Let me ask this question. Is a DASP sale the only way a mortgage could go from one entity to HUD and then from HUD to another entity?
 

wanda robo

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Sep 29, 2012
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Let me ask this question. Is a DASP sale the only way a mortgage could go from one entity to HUD and then from HUD to another entity?

DASP or Claims Without Conveyance of Title (CWCOT). HUD loves their acronyms. If you just found out, it sounds like the later.....

I'll help with whatever knowledge I have. My knowledge is mainly about DASP, but since I have found a new peace & am throwing out all of my HUD "Stuff" I can learn about CWCOT.

You may want to go to page 392 of "bagels" & watch the HUD video I tucked away there. You won't find it on Youtube, publically available, because HUD got very angry at me & made it unsearchable.

If you want to PM me on bagels, I'll answer & ask questions to make me understand your situation.
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
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Totally, we all should have started that back in the days of OCCUPY. You'd think homeowners who'd had their homes stolen would have felt suitably outraged.

As for the ensuing violence from protests turned riots, if we were protesting the banks taking people's homes and their lives I could imagine myself being angry enough to put a rock through a bank window. Might have the self restraint or might not.

So I saw on TV the National Guard tanks & trucks lined up in L.A. today. Hope you stay safe, my friend. If we get through all of this(foreclosures & riots) there will be more "tye dyed roses" in your future. Hell, maybe just regular red roses. You're not all that special, LMAO.

Talk about music, I need a "pick me up". In your profound wisdom, say something I need to hear. Something "Bowie like", something "Monty Python like", something "Ole winery memories like", something"Freddie like".
 

arrgy

LoanSafe Member
Apr 19, 2019
12
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Thanks wanda for the video. My mortgage didn't go through CWCOT, it never got to the sale point. It is clear that mine went through (probably) the last single family DASP program sale, which it shouldn't, because technically I am still in the foreclosure loss mitigation process, and have been since it was first foreclosed on in 2011. Yes I have been in foreclosure off and on for 9 years.

My state, South Carolina, requires that all servicers "certify" that the loss mitigation process has been exhausted, and only then when that certification has been accepted by the local magistrate can a foreclosure hearing and eventual sale go forward. No one has processed that certification as of yet for my loan. Wells Fargo never should have put my mortgage into the DASP pool. The other problem I had was that no one recorded any of the transfers in my county office of deeds (from WF to HUD, and from HUD to Wilmington Trust) until a year after, and I had no idea this program even existed.
Technically, (yeah right) my mortgage still belongs to WF. The question is what do I do about it.

I have looked up some cases that tried to touch on this, and I see all sorts of possible remedies from courts from I have to sue HUD and WF in Federal Court, to I have to do it as part of the foreclosure, to I can possibly argue standing, to I can't even do anything about it at all. Grrr.
 

just_me

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Sep 14, 2015
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I must admit I was not bothered at the broken glass treatment on the big bank buildings downtown. Weird that the cops ignored this stuff. Went for crowds versus vandals.
 
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arrgy

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Apr 19, 2019
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On a completely different note.

If the White House has to be protected by an 8 foot high fence and hundreds of national guard troops, police, secret service, and park police...then you have failed as a President.
 
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moretrouble

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Nov 14, 2009
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“Bank of America pledges $1 billion to address racial, economic inequality”. . The headline.
What a fxxkxxg joke. After stealing billions of dollars from us.
 
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isisis

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Jun 22, 2010
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There are a few ways. ASM's are usually a good hint, a RESPA Request is another.

Honestly, I want to say this out loud. Bankruptcy is a great option for a lot of people. It's the Nuclear option, but for those with ridiculous investors, or terrible servicing companies -- it's a guaranteed path.

I'm steering down that barrel. I owe close to $15,000 in Mortgage Payments, in addition, to an insane amount of money in Delinquent Interest & Escrow Payments on another home. I have great credit right now, re-established myself, and hate to walk away from it. But... it's starting to look likely.

Like I said -- the Nuclear Option. It should inspire hope for a lot of people.
OHM,

Before taking the Nuclear Option something to consider.

You'd mentioned that there are various amounts added to you loan balance, fees of some sort. Have you sent a notice of error to challenge the amounts and request an explanation regarding what the fees are and how they justify imposing them on you? Check out the wording in your loan docs for charges.

In my DOT I agreed that they could charge fees for "services performed in connection with the Borrower's default, for the purpose of protecting the Lender's interest in the Property and rights under the Security Instrument, including but not limited to attorneys fees, property inspections, and valuation fees....But Lender may not charge fees that are expressly prohibited by the Security Instrument or by Applicable Law."

It's somewhat ambiguous, huh? The obvious request would be an explanation as to how the charges protect the Lender's interest, particularly in the case of corporate advances.

If you're with Fannie or Freddie there are specific allowable fees on their websites. But with others default servicing charges are an industry in themselves and they're known to be padded.

The truth is that overcharging default related fees is a violation of the loan contract. That's according to the FTC who took action against Countywide for over charging fees on 2010.

"In charging marked-up fees for default services Defendants have violated the mortgage contract by charging borrowers for default services that exceed the actual cost of the services and that are not reasonable and appropriate you protect the note holder's interest in the property and rights under the Security Instrument."


Overcharging places the Lender in default of their legal obligations and makes their right to foreclose questionable.
 

kraftykrab

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Jan 27, 2014
1,231
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On a completely different note.

If the White House has to be protected by an 8 foot high fence and hundreds of national guard troops, police, secret service, and park police...then you have failed as a President.
Sorry, but no.

The White House has been protected by that fence and troops, police, secret service, etc for decades now. The White House actually has weaponry available to be deployed on the rooftop to shoot down incoming aircraft. It's that serious there. There is not a single provision in place to protect that facility that was not there before Trump took office...not one.

Also, you cannot possibly blame a president because people have flat out lost their damn minds. For 8 years I disagreed with pretty much everything Obama did. I never had any thought--ever--about threatening or causing harm. He was not who I voted for, but he was my president....he won the votes. So while I did not like the job he did, did not like his actions, I prayed for him. Looking back, I still don't like basically anything he did. But there's a lot to be said with the difference between disagreeing with a president, and presenting that kind of threat. It's not a president's fault that knuckleheads today think they can do or threaten to do whatever they choose without consequence.

I read an article this morning that a bunch of idiots busted out the windows in a California Dodge dealership and stole more than 50 brand new high performance cars--some of them with a price tag over $100K....the complete lack of respect for property of others is staggering. You simply cannot use the standard of typical common sense with the current generation or the current climate. I do not recall any time in my life except for when Katrina all but killed this area where looters and rioters were this brazen. The riots in LA after the Rodney King incident were not even like this....that was about showing genuine anger. This is literally nothing more than selfish people seeing the chance to take for themselves. The looters and rioters today--most of them at least--don't care about George Floyd for nothing....this is about them taking free stuff. It's sickening. A retired firefighter in Minneapolis--a black man--sunk his whole life savings into his own business, and the rioters up there are so concerned with black lives that they....wait for it....intentionally set fire to this black man's business and burned it flat to the ground.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
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I LOST. Affirmed without an opinion. Now we know the banks own not only the trial courts but also the Court of Appeals (that was one of my objective). I was hoping for at least an opinion but looking from the Court of Appeals point of view: an opinion reversing the judgement based on the uncontroverted evidence of fraud is not acceptable to the Masters while an opinion affirming would make own judiciary a laughing stock of the nation. Best way to bail out the bank, its law firms, and attorneys is AWO (affirmed w/o opinion). I would bet you you can not find my brief from the apellate records if you do a search.

The court says it's acceptable to use forgery and misrepresentation to collect even if you don't own the note as long as the def does not pay. But the coward judges did not have the guts to put it in writing. Working on a motion for reconsideration and petition to SC. It's not the end. I find myself surprising calm though.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,231
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OHM,

Before taking the Nuclear Option something to consider.

You'd mentioned that there are various amounts added to you loan balance, fees of some sort. Have you sent a notice of error to challenge the amounts and request an explanation regarding what the fees are and how they justify imposing them on you? Check out the wording in your loan docs for charges.

In my DOT I agreed that they could charge fees for "services performed in connection with the Borrower's default, for the purpose of protecting the Lender's interest in the Property and rights under the Security Instrument, including but not limited to attorneys fees, property inspections, and valuation fees....But Lender may not charge fees that are expressly prohibited by the Security Instrument or by Applicable Law."

It's somewhat ambiguous, huh? The obvious request would be an explanation as to how the charges protect the Lender's interest, particularly in the case of corporate advances.

If you're with Fannie or Freddie there are specific allowable fees on their websites. But with others default servicing charges are an industry in themselves and they're known to be padded.

The truth is that overcharging default related fees is a violation of the loan contract. That's according to the FTC who took action against Countywide for over charging fees on 2010.

"In charging marked-up fees for default services Defendants have violated the mortgage contract by charging borrowers for default services that exceed the actual cost of the services and that are not reasonable and appropriate you protect the note holder's interest in the property and rights under the Security Instrument."


Overcharging places the Lender in default of their legal obligations and makes their right to foreclose questionable.
There's another angle you might pursue...

If you have evidence to show that the party trying to take your home has no standing, then right then and there, you can argue through basic contract law that the contract does not include them--and therefore, they gain no rights or benefits through the contract. Meaning, for example, they cannot charge you any fees of any kind because they would have to be a party to the contract to be able to do that.

Also, I think you would have a very hard time trying to convince a court that they broke the contract because of excessive "default related fees", simply because they would only need to respond with "since the borrower was already in default by the time those fees were added, we were no longer required to abide by certain terms of the DOT." And legally speaking they would be correct. Generally, contract law excuses one party from performing under the contract if the other party is already in default. I think that would put the focus in the wrong place and you would be left with a court still saying and believing that you were in default. Charging excessive fees does not make their right to foreclose questionable----it only questions their actions after initiating that foreclosure. That's how I believe a court will look at it.

For that plan to have any teeth, you must show that IF they were even a party to the contract, that THEY defaulted first. That puts YOU in a place where, again generally speaking only, you might be excused from performance without penalty.

I'm using this as part of mine. Since I am able to show that they defaulted by refusing to credit payments I made in good faith--even their own payment history proves it--at that point, under my state's laws, I am excused from performance without penalty until, at the very least, such time as they get around to fixing their errors. Since they won't even admit their errors, let alone fix them, I'm still excused from performance. And, the "without penalty" portion of that statute means that they cannot charge me a single penny in extra interest, foreclosure fees, court costs, inspection costs, or anything else they might try to conjure up as a result. Under the law, I am specifically not required to perform, until they fix what they have broken.

This sentiment is often structured in the laws in a way that allows for different levels of severity for breaches. Example, if they do not credit a payment, that's not a habitual or severe enough breach that would cause you to automatically lose your home. But, if you show a pattern of this behavior, that's more severe. Hence, the allowance that they can rectify their default. Naturally, in a longer-duration issue, where I made payments to them a decade ago that they literally claim to this day I never made, even though they just provided a payment history showing some of them as being made, I can claim more of a dire situation. Then, this can, IMHO, open the door to an unjust enrichment defense--if under the law I am excused from performance WITHOUT PENALTY, then awarding them all those penalties will result in them gaining a very unfair windfall specifically because they refused to obey their own contract. If I refuse to credit your payments, how can I later claim you injured me? That's the deal. I made payments. They cashed the checks. They then pretended I never made them. I even have every receipt from those payments, sent by certified mail and the whole bit.

Now that our courts are hopefully opening up again soon, it's time to dig back in. I am still waiting on the result of a MTC discovery. We'll see what happens next.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
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I LOST. Affirmed without an opinion. Now we know the banks own not only the trial courts but also the Court of Appeals (that was one of my objective). I was hoping for at least an opinion but looking from the Court of Appeals point of view: an opinion reversing the judgement based on the uncontroverted evidence of fraud is not acceptable to the Masters while an opinion affirming would make own judiciary a laughing stock of the nation. Best way to bail out the bank, its law firms, and attorneys is AWO (affirmed w/o opinion). I would bet you you can not find my brief from the apellate records if you do a search.

The court says it's acceptable to use forgery and misrepresentation to collect even if you don't own the note as long as the def does not pay. But the coward judges did not have the guts to put it in writing. Working on a motion for reconsideration and petition to SC. It's not the end. I find myself surprising calm though.
MT,

So damn sorry that this is how it turned out....and so glad at the same time that you're not giving up....
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
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North bay
I LOST. Affirmed without an opinion. Now we know the banks own not only the trial courts but also the Court of Appeals (that was one of my objective). I was hoping for at least an opinion but looking from the Court of Appeals point of view: an opinion reversing the judgement based on the uncontroverted evidence of fraud is not acceptable to the Masters while an opinion affirming would make own judiciary a laughing stock of the nation. Best way to bail out the bank, its law firms, and attorneys is AWO (affirmed w/o opinion). I would bet you you can not find my brief from the apellate records if you do a search.

The court says it's acceptable to use forgery and misrepresentation to collect even if you don't own the note as long as the def does not pay. But the coward judges did not have the guts to put it in writing. Working on a motion for reconsideration and petition to SC. It's not the end. I find myself surprising calm though.
Damn, I'm angry. That's not right. They didn't even have the cojones to address your arguments. Perhaps because they know they couldn't and didn't want the issue to see the light of day. Either the securitization allegations or the fraud on the court. Wonder which, maybe both.
 
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isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
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North bay
On a completely different note.

If the White House has to be protected by an 8 foot high fence and hundreds of national guard troops, police, secret service, and park police...then you have failed as a President.
"I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled.The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children." General James Mattis.