Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah

Javagold

LoanSafe Member
Mar 2, 2012
151
10
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It sure would be nice if we did have a decision on what constitutes a valid endorsement. I don't want you spending money, but yes, it would be so nice.

This is a Promissory Note that has been endorsed. Just like a check - If I endorse it to Isis, I can't give it to you Wanda. If I am lucky, I might be able to convince Isis to sign it over to you, but, once It's endorsed it's over.


I used to have a guide to preparing these Allonge's and Endorsements by Chicago Title. I need to find it and upload it here. Any form of whiteout or "void" is supposed to be a big "no-no".
How about a STAMPED endorsement in BLANK that’s ABOVE the signature of the borrower????
Surely that’s a big NO-NO !!!
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,683
551
113
NJ
It sure would be nice if we did have a decision on what constitutes a valid endorsement. I don't want you spending money, but yes, it would be so nice.

This is a Promissory Note that has been endorsed. Just like a check - If I endorse it to Isis, I can't give it to you Wanda. If I am lucky, I might be able to convince Isis to sign it over to you, but, once It's endorsed it's over.


I used to have a guide to preparing these Allonge's and Endorsements by Chicago Title. I need to find it and upload it here. Any form of whiteout or "void" is supposed to be a big "no-no".

Well my friend, the NJ Superior Court, Appellate Court & apparently Supreme Court disagrees with you. They think it's perfectly OK that US Bank claimed they had the right to enforce a Note endorsed to HUD. A Note that could never be endorsed beyond HUD because the Limited POA expired in 2015. Let's also throw in the fact that I had the Assignment agreement from HUD declaring any assignment of the rights of the parties (the right to the Note & Mtg) would be void ab initio.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,134
144
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Can anyone answer the typical timeline after response for MSJ? I'm not finding much reference, but believe after Plaintiff has had time to respond, it will be sent to judge for ruling. Should I request oral arguments or not? I know my particular judge is a stickler on having it all in writing, even though I don't always get that written notice from the mill. What sort of experience have you guys had? Thanks.

Procedure is probably typical, but small differences from state to state mean you are going to want to study up on your state's RCP.

The basic idea is this....

1--a party(ironically enough, it's usually a defendant) files MSJ. They file their motion, exhibits, and memo in support of, as well as an affidavit (not always necessary but commonly done). This party is called the moving party.

2--the non-moving party gets a chance to oppose, in writing, and in order to do so this party would follow the same basic plan as the moving party---opposition, with memo in support, exhibits, and affidavit about the exhibits. ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT---some states REQUIRE the non-moving party to specifically object in writing at that time to any exhibits or documents the moving party filed----and if the non-moving party does NOT do so in writing at that time, it cannot argue against those docs at the hearing.

3--oral argument is generally for appeals and supervisory writs, not for this. Generally there should be a contradictory hearing on the MSJ, again check your state's RCP to verify.

4--After the time allowed for opposition, and if the non-moving party files opposition, the moving party generally can file a final brief in support, but at least in my state, they cannot add any new documents or evidence, they can only try to rebut what the non-moving party stated in its opposition.

Then it goes to a hearing. Both sides get the chance to argue their position. The moving party will go first, and introduce their exhibits into evidence. VERY IMPORTANT AGAIN--check your state's RCP on this, because in my state, only certain types of documents are acceptable for MSJ evidence. Also, remember the goal of MSJ is to end the litigation because the moving party--if it's the plaintiff--claims that there are no issues of material fact in dispute, and that they should prevail. The opposing party's job is to point out any legit issues of material fact that are still in dispute. Be careful here....in my state, it is crystal clear and there's even case law to support this, but if there is ANY issue of material concern to the matter that's still in dispute, then summary judgment CANNOT be granted---the actual wording of the state supreme court case law.

In the case of a foreclosure, you should be aware that most of the "evidence" that they provide is not acceptable for purpose of MSJ. Again, laws of my own state, but they do state that any affidavits must be made on personal knowledge only, and if you can show that there's no personal knowledge, then you can try to get that document excluded.

In my case, the trial court totally screwed this up. Totally.....I cited dozens of cases that all showed that an affidavit identical to the one they presented in my case was simply insufficient according to law. The trial court ignored all of it. I mean IDENTICAL....even found a foreclosure case where the COA ruled that the affidavit was inadmissible hearsay. THIS IS IMPORTANT--in my state, the burden of proof is on the moving party to show that there's no issue of material fact in dispute. That burden ONLY shifts to the non-moving party once the moving party has met their burden under the law. If they did not meet it in their MSJ, then the burden never shifts to you. My state, I know...but check yours for similar. There is good case law here showing where the plaintiff never met their burden under the law---and the state supreme court rulings actually say that if they never meet that burden, summary judgment CANNOT be granted.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,134
144
63
I would always request oral argument. You get satisfaction by looking the judge in the eye.
I would imagine that "requesting oral argument" is unnecessary in most MSJ oppositions because there should be a MSJ hearing anyway. Check your state's RCP to confirm. But I would NOT recommend requesting oral arguments in this situation if your state already requires a hearing for this---it shows the other side that you do not know the laws that are involved.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,325
198
63
As requested by the trial court's clerk, I 've just submitted a proposed order to have my motion to correct transcript granted. Went to the court house this afternoon, checked out a few things. For Oregon, tons of foreclosures in the name of Bank of New York Mellon were filed in 2016, much fewer in 2017, only several in 2018, and none in 2019 so far. Apparently, the practice of servicers like Ocwen, BOfA, using the BONY as trustee was exposed and coupled with on-going lawsuits from the institutional investors, BONY has put a stop to allowing its name to be used in lawsuits because it is an admission BONY is guilty of trustee's misconduct (mucho dollars in damages).
Also followed up on the other pro se. Lost on appeal August 2018, she filed a tort lawsuit in December 2018 against BOfA, case is still going and she is still the the house. Like me, she costs whoever tries to profit from the foreclosure tons of legal fees. Good job , lady.
Hope everybody doing well, enjoying the summer with my kids.
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
737
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28
Thanks folks on answers on the allonge.
More specific/key question on the allonge.

Let us say the document/DOT has 10 pages and they add 1 page allonge to it. But they have not filed the added page (new updated document ) with the county land records office. The allonge was just added without any date and by a fraudulent employee/clerk to be filed as a Proof of Claim in a bankruptcy court 2 years ago. And subsequent assignments were filed in county land records office. BUT not the new/updated DOT which has a the allonge which makes there is no Current DOT with land records office with the allonge.

IF they foreclose again on the DOT it has to be based on the new/updated DOT which does not exist? So they cannot foreclose on the old DOT without the allonge (the validity of allonge is different issue).

Hope you all got my point....
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,683
551
113
NJ
TX, I'm not sure I understand you. An allonge is to the Note which is never filed in the county records. Assignments are filed in the county, not allonges or Notes.
Notes & Mortgages or in your case, a Deed of Trust are totally different.

Judicial States:

Note & Mortgage

Non-Judicial:

Note & Deed of Trust
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,683
551
113
NJ
So, I feel like the raping continues. You guys gave me good advice about not being bothered by making an offer on a foreclosure. I thought about it & you're all right. I wanted to make someone's once happy home, my new happy home. Turns out, when you bid on a foreclosure the banks entertain "investor" bids 1st, before owner occupant bids. They'd rather the house go to a "flipper" who's going to slap some crap from Home Depot into it to, market it 50-60k over value & turn a buck. It's all so sickening.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
438
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Yes, this is true. My father tried to buy the condo in foreclosure that was located next to my sister in Florida. He walked away with a sour taste in his mouth. The "online auction" wanted deposits before taking bids and all sorts of wierd requirements. Dad is an auction afficiando. It didn't matter what he bid they wouldn't tell him if he was winning bid and kept extending the deadline to obtain higher offers, then wanting to keep deposits. This was when Ocwen started created all sorts of third party property management and auction sites to process their REOs. My sister calls this a GoatF*ck.

Turns out, when you bid on a foreclosure the banks entertain "investor" bids 1st, before owner occupant bids. They'd rather the house go to a "flipper" who's going to slap some crap from Home Depot into it to, market it 50-60k over value & turn a buck. It's all so sickening.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
438
30
28
Krafty, that was very helpful. I am not sure if I have to request hearing or not, as most of this info was elusive and hard to find. I did not request oral arguments and don't know how that will pan out. I think the lack of prosecution (years) and using two different versions of the note may work against them. Plus, the fact that I was not in default. The payments received were in the records they supplied, yet they still moved forward to foreclosure.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
438
30
28
IF they foreclose again on the DOT it has to be based on the new/updated DOT which does not exist? So they cannot foreclose on the old DOT without the allonge (the validity of allonge is different issue).

Hope you all got my point....
When I had an attorney, she sent a request to opposing counsel for the "updated" DOT to match their "updated" name. LOL There was no response, but yeah, I get your point! Don't know if the court will or not. Ultimately we did not pursue this line of attack.
 

Shteeeven

LoanSafe Member
Dec 5, 2017
98
7
8
Supreme Court Overturns Precedent In Property Rights Case — A Sign Of Things To Come? - NPR
Can anyone use this?
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
737
42
28
TX, I'm not sure I understand you. An allonge is to the Note which is never filed in the county records. Assignments are filed in the county, not allonges or Notes.
Notes & Mortgages or in your case, a Deed of Trust are totally different.

Judicial States:

Note & Mortgage

Non-Judicial:

Note & Deed of Trust
Wanda,

Thanks. But the allonge was used to in POC (proof of claim in ) an earlier bk13 case. But the assignments were done but all were signed by robosigner(aka bank employees) who are clerks/notaries who signed as vice president/s in the allonge/assignments/all the relevant documents. Yes. I have DOT since it is non-jud. But the DOT is belonging to WAMU and there is no picture of JPMC in the DOT except the allonge with no dates on it and only the signature of fraudulent employee who and the text simply says about JPMC no other pages of DOT has any reference to JPMC.

I just re-looked the document and it says the it is an allonge to the mortgage note. In my case there is no note, only DOT . So how can they add an allonge to the note when what I have is a DOT?

74
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
737
42
28
And the note says it is mortgage note but in texas non-jud state the FC is to be done on DOT. I guess big screwup in all aspects. And the allonge DOES NOT have any punch holes in that page while other 5 pages has punch holes. Not sure this is a major issue or not....(given the extent of fraud/forgery in all aspects)
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
737
42
28
This is related to a govt take over of a property. Not sure this will be applicable in foreclosure cases but one can argue that county /state /sheriff violated the fifth amendment and take it to the Federal court?
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
427
30
28
Wanda,

Thanks. But the allonge was used to in POC (proof of claim in ) an earlier bk13 case. But the assignments were done but all were signed by robosigner(aka bank employees) who are clerks/notaries who signed as vice president/s in the allonge/assignments/all the relevant documents. Yes. I have DOT since it is non-jud. But the DOT is belonging to WAMU and there is no picture of JPMC in the DOT except the allonge with no dates on it and only the signature of fraudulent employee who and the text simply says about JPMC no other pages of DOT has any reference to JPMC.

I just re-looked the document and it says the it is an allonge to the mortgage note. In my case there is no note, only DOT . So how can they add an allonge to the note when what I have is a DOT?

I think you may be misunderstanding how these work. There are two sets of paperwork that you sign at closing. One is the Mortgage/Deed of Trust/Security Instrument (depending on the state) and this is the paperwork that creates a lien against the title to the property in the county records. By having a lien against the title, you can't just sell the house out from under the bank, or deed it away, or take out five different loans.

^It really doesn't matter if this paperwork gets thrown out, disposed, or lost, because it's already recorded and because it's a matter of public record, generally the court will just accept a certified copy from public records and call it a day.

The Second Set of Paperwork you sign at the closing table.. is the Promissory Note. This is the most important part, because it establishes the debt. This is what they would endorse or attach a allonge to. It's your promise to pay, and acts as evidence that you owe the debt to the holder.

You will never see a allonge or endorsement publicly recorded in the Register of Deeds/County Clerk/Etc. That is retained in the loan servicers or investors vault, and only pulled out during a Bankruptcy, Foreclosure proceeding, or a pay off of the loan.

In your case file -- there should be a copy of the note. If there is not, they likely used a affidavit of indebtedness, with testimony of a servicing employee that you owe the money, and general information about the loan. This can be challenged though.