Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
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An allonge is "supposed" to be executed if there is no room on your Note to place an endorsement. They fabricate them all the time.
You can attack it in several ways.
1. Examine the original Note & see if the entire back of the document is blank. If it is, the endorsement should have been placed on the back of the original Note itself.
2. Was the allonge permanently affixed
to the Note????? Sounds silly, but cases have been won with this argument. Do the staple holes match up?
3. Can the person who endorsed the Note by the allonge testify on what date the allonge was executed? (Allonges usually aren't dated).
Even all 1, 2, and 3 are not true. The corrupt judge can still rule the note and the allonge are valid. In my case,:

1. The note still has room on the fron, they stamped the indorsements on the back. Plenty of room, no need for an allong.
2. My allong was created in 2015, white paper contrasted against my old brown note.
3. The person who requested the allong worked for BOfA.

Be prepared to attack the judge and the corrupt system. I will not sell my soul for 400K.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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Speaking of Allonges... Here's an oldie but goodie
(Imagine Barbara Streisand tune "Memories")

--->

--->

Exhibit - Assignment-Allonge Request clip - redact top.JPG
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
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Another thing you can do is investigate the chain of title. To paraphrase Spock from one of the Star Trek movies, if we eliminate the impossible, then what is left, no matter how unlikely, is at least possible.

Here's what I mean.....in my case, allonges were created, though as I mentioned, not used by the other side in the litigation. I now suspect that the reason why they did not is because I challenged them the moment I saw them. But anyway, here's the thing--when they create assignments and indorsements, they are creating a chain of title. The indorsement in black became fashionable because it removes the defendant's ability to point to an incorrect party in their chain of title. BUT....they often first must make a transfer happen to a cooperating party BEFORE they go for the blank indorsement. In my case, they first used an allonge to transfer the note to the fake trustee. THEN, they turned around and fabricated another allonge with the fake trustee transferring the note in blank. Here's where they start to come off the rails.

Most recently, I have been told by the servicer that the servicer itself is the actual owner---they claim that they bought it back in 2014 from the original creditor. BUT HANG ON.....this same servicer fabricated not only the allonges--which again, were not used in the litigation---but they ALSO created the fake assignment of mortgage....which, you guessed it, named the fake trustee as the owner/holder of this note and mortgage. So, if you were in my shoes, would you rather spend your time tryign to prove that the allonges/assignments are forgeries, or that they are otherwise fraudulent? Or, would you rather use their own words against them, show the court that they have admitted out their own mouths that they lied on those documents, and argue perjury against them, as well as fraud, fraud upon the court, sanctions against both the plaintiff and their attorney, etc etc?

I know which way I'm going to go.

Let that sink in a bit....the same servicer that created a phony assignment, showing the purchaser was this fake trustee for an empty trust, has NOW said multiple times to me over the phone that THEY, the servicer, is the purchaser, and that they have owned it themselves since the same time they claimed IN WRITING that the fake trustee owned it on behalf of the trust. There are multiple ways you can pursue this. But remember, the moment that the plaintiff's attorney can find themselves in the legal system's crosshairs, they should be less willing to continue perpetuating the fraud. In my case there are two additional details that matter. First, the law office itself is the party that sent the fake assignment to my county recorder's office and requested recording against my property---which makes the lawyers themselves complicit in the fraud. That's a BIG deal. Second, I can show that I challenged their chain of title claims in writing---and the specific attorney whom I see in court each hearing is the one who specifically stated to me in writing that this matter was looked into and the end result is that their written assignment is true and correct.

In other words, there's no way for the attorney or the law firm itself to hide from this mess. Not only can I prove by their own writings that they were aware of my disputes, but I can also prove that they had a hand in covering up the lies. If you can put something similar together on your own case, then the issue of fighting out the individual pieces of paper they fabbed out of thin air becomes moot. You could still add them---and I will certainly make an argument that this lawyer and her firm engaged in fraudulently recording a known fake document containing a forgery in the official property records, but at this point that's kind of an afterthought, it just further supports the fact that they knowingly did wrong and that the law demands they not be permitted to gain a victory on the back of fraud. Remember, fraud vitiates all.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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Why not both? I would tackle it both ways. The proof of docs & pages being created, substituted, added later, robosigs, etc. Put that in an exhibit with an affidavite to introduce it. (just like they do, lol) Personal knowlege, these are your findings from your investigation of discovery, etc. Then, these support the fraud upon the court and/or any relevant legal causes of action in a cross-claim or whatever filing you plan..That way you introduce evidence that supports motions, counter-suit, etc. (I'm still holding mine for awhile cause I need to wrap up other things) I do agree with Krafty, don't show all your cards from the get go. (let it get legally "ripe") Some times you gotta know when to hold em and know when to show em. ;)
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,646
540
113
NJ
So..I have a question. I've been grappling with something & need input. I have to move or hope that LFS9 accepts an offer on the house I'm renting. The only houses I can afford are foreclosures in my township & I don't know how I feel about that. I feel kind of like I'm betraying all of my hard work all these years if I put an offer on a foreclosure, but I look at the dockets. The people who lost their homes & are now up for sale, never even fought. So, in your opinions, would I be wrong & just as bad as the"bad guys" if I make an offer on a house that was foreclosed on?

I know this is a tough question, but one I'd really appreciate input on. If you lost your house to foreclosure, would you buy a house where another family lost their house to foreclosure?
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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Yes. It would be better for someone in recovery to have the house versus a greedy flipper or fund. I would just make sure all the legal stuff is kosher and no one is still intent on getting it back.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,128
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Why not both? I would tackle it both ways. The proof of docs & pages being created, substituted, added later, robosigs, etc. Put that in an exhibit with an affidavite to introduce it. (just like they do, lol) Personal knowlege, these are your findings from your investigation of discovery, etc. Then, these support the fraud upon the court and/or any relevant legal causes of action in a cross-claim or whatever filing you plan..That way you introduce evidence that supports motions, counter-suit, etc. (I'm still holding mine for awhile cause I need to wrap up other things) I do agree with Krafty, don't show all your cards from the get go. (let it get legally "ripe") Some times you gotta know when to hold em and know when to show em. ;)
There are multiple reasons to consider only one, and not both.

First, if your state's courts routinely reject the document arguments, and you try to make them, you'll turn those judges off to you so much that they may well ignore everything else you bring to the table.

Second, the true nature of the documents is not always as cut and dried as the chain of title issues might be. Your mileage may vary. There is often a lot of mystery about these faked papers--and many courts are going to be less likely to issue a wide-ranging ruling confirming fake docs, as they would be to issue a narrow ruling that in just the one case the wrong party was before the court.

Third, making allegations of faked documents can be seen by the court as a tangental argument--we all know that most states' courts have largely ignored the UCC requirements. Those laws regarding the paperwork are not very well enforced in those courts. I actually tried to make similar arguments in my case when facing the MSJ back in 2017....the judge literally said that she believed I was just making side arguments instead of focusing on the issue at hand. And because of that, at least in part, when I informed her that the named plaintiff by its own admission is a complete stranger to this litigation, she simply ignored me and ruled in their favor.

This should be approached on a case by case basis. If you can sell the court on the fact that the chain of title is corrupted, then that should open the door to point to the fact that if the claimed chain of title is flawed, then the documentation clearly has to be flawed as well. And then, since those docs were fabricated specifically by the so-called plaintiff for the purpose of litigation, there is obviously fraud upon the court at the very least. But the first part of this IMHO is the chain of title. Anything about the documents could be explained away as a simple paperwork error or oversight....but if you can prove that the party before the court legitimately has zero involvement with any loan that pertains to the subject property, that's a different story.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,128
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So..I have a question. I've been grappling with something & need input. I have to move or hope that LFS9 accepts an offer on the house I'm renting. The only houses I can afford are foreclosures in my township & I don't know how I feel about that. I feel kind of like I'm betraying all of my hard work all these years if I put an offer on a foreclosure, but I look at the dockets. The people who lost their homes & are now up for sale, never even fought. So, in your opinions, would I be wrong & just as bad as the"bad guys" if I make an offer on a house that was foreclosed on?

I know this is a tough question, but one I'd really appreciate input on. If you lost your house to foreclosure, would you buy a house where another family lost their house to foreclosure?
If you find a property that no one is fighting for, better that you have it than someone who's dishonest and greedy. You need to take care of you and your family first, anyways. That's my $.02....don't spend it all in one place!!

Remember this---not all foreclosures are fraudulent. Some people legitimately did not pay their bills. If they are not fighting, then they would have already moved on. You're looking for a home, not for a way to flip and make some quick $$$ off of someone else's misfortunes. I say go for it.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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"There are multiple reasons to consider only one, and not both.
This should be approached on a case by case basis. "

Agree. I just went through MSJ response. (why I'm giddy with song tunes after no sleep for days)

I opted to stick to the primary issue. They haven't prove their case. They don't have the note and their records show payments received. The balance is another story. I didn't bring in much more than that because, as the non-moving party, all I have to do is "create doubt." I basically did "no proof of standing" and "no cause of action" argument and opted not to present my case evidence in an impromptu manner. While, yes, I did basically write my trial matter out just going through the process, lol, but opted not to use it. At this time.

Now if they come forward with the "Note" that is a different story.

I didn't want to convolute "basic doubt" which is all I need. After some disection I thought this was best move. Just make them lose this battle and keep requesting trial. If I had presented more I would have risked converting the case to a cross-over MSJ and could have potentially lost prematurely. I just stuck to them and their case. I did however request "judicial notice" of a settlement noncompliance related to the bad acts.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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I have no clue if the courts are doing this in my area right now. (laughing and tossing out document fraud claims) My case was stale until recently. I do know if you present "all of it" in defense to certain motions, your more likely to lose because you are focusing on wrong thing. We've had some wins and losses with homeowners in my area, but at least *here* a blank endorsed allonge with no identification (loan number, property address, name of owner) relating it to the note, DOES create doubt.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
412
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So..I have a question. I've been grappling with something & need input. I have to move or hope that LFS9 accepts an offer on the house I'm renting. The only houses I can afford are foreclosures in my township & I don't know how I feel about that. I feel kind of like I'm betraying all of my hard work all these years if I put an offer on a foreclosure, but I look at the dockets. The people who lost their homes & are now up for sale, never even fought. So, in your opinions, would I be wrong & just as bad as the"bad guys" if I make an offer on a house that was foreclosed on?

I know this is a tough question, but one I'd really appreciate input on. If you lost your house to foreclosure, would you buy a house where another family lost their house to foreclosure?
There were a couple of years, in my area... where previously $260-270k Condo's were selling for $30-40k. Newly Constructed in 2005-2008, and being sold at insane prices in 2009-2010. I actually thought about maybe attempting to borrow money from family or something, and purchasing one. But... like you, I had serious thoughts & feelings that pulled on my conscience. In the end, I didn't want to purchase a home that had been lost by a family. However... here are the real facts.

Families and homeowners didn't purchase those insane deals. Investors did. They went around buying them, and loading up 8-10 at a time, at the auctions, and flipped them for enormous gains years later. Very few new homeowners were made from this massive inventory, and a decent majority... were just walking away from their unfortunate timing.

You have to put you and your family first. The fact of the matter is, if you don't buy the property, a investor likely will. And I can tell you first hand... if I lost my place tomorrow, I would feel so much better knowing that it went to a family, instead of some Landlord. It would make me feel better.
 

Javagold

LoanSafe Member
Mar 2, 2012
148
10
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So..I have a question. I've been grappling with something & need input. I have to move or hope that LFS9 accepts an offer on the house I'm renting. The only houses I can afford are foreclosures in my township & I don't know how I feel about that. I feel kind of like I'm betraying all of my hard work all these years if I put an offer on a foreclosure, but I look at the dockets. The people who lost their homes & are now up for sale, never even fought. So, in your opinions, would I be wrong & just as bad as the"bad guys" if I make an offer on a house that was foreclosed on?

I know this is a tough question, but one I'd really appreciate input on. If you lost your house to foreclosure, would you buy a house where another family lost their house to foreclosure?
It’s strictly business decisions at this point in time. Until the fraud is stopped and the truth is revealed to everyone. You should have no feelings involved.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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OK, need discovery whiz....looking for quick critique.....reply with email
Leaving for lunch with friend, I'll be checking email this evening. I have a really good one from legal aid if you need something. Wanda is keeper of email. Otherwise use this to contact me at [email protected]
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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Here's a great allonge-look at the signature line under good ole Michelle's signature!
Crap - they really destroyed that note. You can’t just unendorse something or write “void”. The keyword is - “without recourse”.

Once that note in endorsed - the bearing entity has to authorize and endorse the note to correct party or entity, even if it is a mistake.

You can’t use whiteout or just fix something with a pen. This is how mortgages ended up in those Scratch and Dent deals. The loans and paperwork are screwed beyond repair, unless they can convince the borrower to resign the documents.
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,646
540
113
NJ
So, should I go into the unknown & petition Scotus about what constitutes a valid endorsement? I'll do it, my friend, but 1st I have to sue HUD.
I followed the rules, I files a Tort Claim & they haven't responded. I've waited like a spider for the SOL to expire. I have until 7/14/19 to file my suit. I'm going for it, so please help keep me strong.
 
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just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
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Can anyone answer the typical timeline after response for MSJ? I'm not finding much reference, but believe after Plaintiff has had time to respond, it will be sent to judge for ruling. Should I request oral arguments or not? I know my particular judge is a stickler on having it all in writing, even though I don't always get that written notice from the mill. What sort of experience have you guys had? Thanks.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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So, should I go into the unknown & petition Scotus about what constitutes a valid endorsement? I'll do it, my friend, but 1st I have to sue HUD.
It sure would be nice if we did have a decision on what constitutes a valid endorsement. I don't want you spending money, but yes, it would be so nice.

This is a Promissory Note that has been endorsed. Just like a check - If I endorse it to Isis, I can't give it to you Wanda. If I am lucky, I might be able to convince Isis to sign it over to you, but, once It's endorsed it's over.


I used to have a guide to preparing these Allonge's and Endorsements by Chicago Title. I need to find it and upload it here. Any form of whiteout or "void" is supposed to be a big "no-no".