Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
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North bay
Bagels at a bar mitzvah. I used that term recently in a forum to describe the eagerness with which I would be handing out modifications to vocal individuals who "get it" if I were a bank that had made a gazillion dollars double dipping in securities fraud, credit default swaps and fraudulent assignments and wished to continue to do so. It would seem a thrifty form of insurance as a happy homeowner with moderate payments is far less likely to dig deeper, engage in conversations about fraud that in this new world of communication spread and might even grow to the point there could be consequences for greed. I was kind of kidding and didn’t really expect that sort of prudence from banks and the following is probably coincidental…but….

I’ve been in foreclosure three times and two years ago was essentially lured into Countrywide’s modification program and then misled into default. A few QWR, Civil Code and RESPA violations later no modification, a sale date and finally a preventative BK.

Knowing the terms of the BK were economically prohibitive even if I cut out luxuries like heating my home this winter and inspired by the stories of others fighting back I went into battle mode and became vocal on this forum and elsewhere. I submitted complaints to the OCC and Attorney General, faxed the CEO and OOP with my concerns. I then began investigating the loan trust into which my loan could only have been placed by magic or unlawful means and county records where there is evidence of notary fraud voiding the foreclosure initiation.

As expected my attorney bailed on me after I told him I wanted to file Bofa as an insecured creditor as they had no standing to foreclose and the chain of title was broken. He told me this judge thinks standing should be determined in civil court and people like me just want a free house (yes, I told him it wouldn’t be free unless they returned my $300,000 with interest). He completely side stepped the evidence of fraud and brought paperwork to court to sign me over as pro se.

Just a few hours later after getting a continuance on the confirmation of the BK plan to gain more investigative time a Mercedes pulled into my driveway. She might as well have been carrying a sign that said short sale. Instead she was from Bofa, said they’d been trying to get a hold of me, wanted me to call.

So, I called Bofa and Maurice told me they have a trial modification ready for me. What????????????? I made Maurice repeat himself a couple of times. Same story.

The word “trial†seems operative enough to prevent jubilance, until I see it on paper I’m not counting on it and the timing of it all is perplexing.

I’ll be the first to acknowledge that coincidence is a mathematical inevitability but come on! Two hours after getting a continuance to investigate the evidence of notary fraud found at the recorders office three days earlier and numerous posts and google searches inquiring into CWAB 2006 SD2 I get a personal visit to let me know about a modification?

I would imagine Bofa has some sort of risk analysis section in which troubling loans like mine are placed – the ones who make a fuss over details like adherence to the law. Is it inconceivable that the balance between making a reasonable income on the interest of a loan and fleecing someone for everything they’ve got might be tipped by the risk of litigation or even the need to mollify vocal borrowers investigating the same issues as the Attorney General or questioning whether their loan trust still exists?

Bofa has asked me on various occasions for my email and I obliged though they’ve never contacted me by that means but if that enabled them to monitor google searches….
...Ok, I’m not saying that typing T. Sevillano notary fraud or CWABS 2006 SD2 hundreds of times is an incantation that results in a Mercedes delivered modification. Maybe it was the OCC complaint mentioning Civil code and RESPA violations and unfair business practices, letters to the CEO, emails to my “investorâ€, debt validation letter, all of the above, coincidence….? Or perhaps just a trial mod to fund the foreclosure before tossing me out, still it’s bought me some time.

Maybe I’m just putting a positive spin on my paranoia but if I hadn’t gotten aggressive, hadn’t learned the law and my rights I wouldn’t still have my home and I think the more we learn about what’s happening and the more we speak up the better our chances are of keeping our homes.

I want to encourage people not to give up even if it looks bleak. Just because you can’t afford an attorney doesn’t mean you can’t learn your rights and try to assert them by letting the banks know in writing that by proceeding with a foreclosure they will be breaking the law.

Two Loansafe threads I recommend reading to see how others are fighting back with some success are Freedomwon’s “Mrecent letter to Bofa†and “Forged, robo signing, mismatched signaturesâ€

Thanks Loansafe!
Isisis
 
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freedomwon

LoanSafe Member
Oct 30, 2010
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Hi isisis - Thanks for giving us an update on your experience in court. Some things in life are coincidence while others simply are not. The timing of the Mercedes pulling up into your driveway is no accident. Last thing BofA wants is more "discovery".

I've become a bit cynical at this point in the process. I sincerely do hope a trial mod you can actually live with is on it's way to you shortly, however; DO NOT LET YOUR GUARD DOWN. Don't let a day go by that you aren't moving forward like a steam roller on your discovery process & gathering additional evidence.

It will be interesting to see if you get any sort of loan mod that actually makes good financial sense. Keep up the good work!
 

freedomwon

LoanSafe Member
Oct 30, 2010
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California
Still, if I were one of the Emperor’s ministers and saw some kid snickering and getting ready to point his finger I think I’d distract that kid with a loan modification.
Apparently, the woman in the mercedes was one of the Emperor's ministers! LOL
 
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Tarin Myhairout

LoanSafe Member
Oct 31, 2011
320
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Twin Cities, MN
With Lox and Schmear!

Isisis:

Many of us chortled at your 'Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah' line - I adored it!

"Coincidence" is a tricky concept, and I think pure coincidence is rare. The Mercedes in the driveway is just too precious - and a very striking image. We would be naive to think that BofA et., al aren't stalking this Forum. I don't know about the quality of other sites, but just look at the evidence you, Freedomwon and others have found - and shared publicly here. Big Brother may not be watching, but BofA is!

Of course they are data mining! If their own programmers can't do it, there are plenty of companies dedicated to digging up uncomplimentary cyber news, and defending against it. I envision the counters at the bottom of the screen spinning like the wheels on a one-arm bandit.

Your stories are detailed, complete and credible. The Risk Management team has not only dropped the ball, they have accidentally kicked it into the opposing goal. It might be that the fraud and incompetence is just too vast to overcome easily. They are scrambling now, but can't unring the bell.

I think Barb D. knows too much and now they are edging her out the door. It would be in their best interests to grant her not a golden parachute, but a platinum orbiter. I hope she leaves the dark side and blows that whistle long and loud!

Attorneys bail on their clients because taking on BofA or any big Bank is an office-closing proposition. If you don't have enough $$ to pay to keep that office open, the attorneys can't carry the case. (I don't like it, but I get it)

I don't think we should underestimate the power of strength in numbers. Just think of all the people who find this Forum, see the similarities in their stories, and join up and in with their own ideas! This is empowerment, and results in a true force to contend with.

Finally, maybe it is also part of that whole karma thing. You have been helping other people with your story, and been generous in sharing your research and expertise. You never know how or why that might inure to your benefit.

I echo Freedomwon's worry that this is just another trick; but I don't think so. Wouldn't it be great if it showed up as a perm mod? Stranger things have happened. (I would prefer a 'paid in full', but probably not...) You are not fooled - if they try something else, you will be ready.

For now, just take a moment to savor this victory!

As Always,

Tarin
 
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isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
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North bay
That was nice, Tarin, thanks for saying it ...and you were insightful as always, Freedomwon, both in suggesting caution and remembering our use of Tarin’s analogy.

As it turns out the keyword is distraction not modification. Distraction has been the purpose of the loan modification from the start and being wiley (the Emperor’s ministers) they’ve made the process itself distracting, painstaking and personal too so it becomes the focus of attention and we lose track of the fact that the need for modification is due to their misdeeds and the damage they caused. They want us distracted with the hope and pursuit of the nearly unattainable loan mod so we don’t pay attention to how they got us in this mess, and the laws they broke in securities and then covered up with another fraud.
Then we are supposed to go hat in hand and ask these criminals if they would please allow is to have low enough mortgages payments so we can afford to feed our families.

Finally, I found they were wiley enough to not quite give me a mod yet but to distract me with “a little more paperwork” – so I don’t know about this….,,,
 

stephanies

LoanSafe Member
Jan 24, 2011
124
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isisis...FYI....if you are still in need of a FC defense attorney in the North Bay, I just noticed that on Max Gardner's Boot Camp website, he lists 'graduates' of his courses, one which is now FC defense, and there are several that have done both BK and FC defense bootcamp that are in the bay area....
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,651
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North bay
Thanks Stephanies,

I do have some names of Gardner graduates in my area that I ‘d like to speak to; if you or anyone has specific recommendations that would be great. An important lesson learned about pro se representation this week that might be fairly obvious to those of you with legal experience is that being right doesn’t mean you’ll win. A Judge with his mind made up would also trump a Gardener graduate with evidence of fraudulent assignments and lack of standing though they would at least be aware of the Judge’s leanings beforehand.
I still think that Freedomwon’s approach has the wisdom of economy as well as appealing to my idealistic side that would like to think that the justice system is set up in such a way that an individual can interoperate laws and demand they be complied with in a dispute and that that minimally would provide groundwork for any subsequent legal action.

The question that I keep wondering is how most effectively to use evidence of their various unlawful actions to negotiate a modification. How (in a QWR?) and with whom (addressed to the bank, the negotiator?).
 

fightforit

LoanSafe Member
Aug 31, 2010
247
2
18
just a quick question-
why would you sign any mod paperwork after disputing the debt?
I am assuming you disputed it right?
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
549
61
28
Oregon
There is so much wisdom from the postings of this group. Like in an auto accident, afterwards, it doesn't matter who was right, who had the legal right of way, if you died in the accident..the goal is to come out of it uninjured and alive. I know we will not come out of this uninjured, but we will be strong, courageous, and elders who will still be alive with core values that won't be swayed or bought off.
I saw the film Meltdown, produced by Aljzeera and shown on Canadian BBC. It is a powerful view globally of this crisis. Sometimes it is good to step back from one's own documents and details and see the picture from a wider lens. It was physically hard to watch footage of the CEOs in their meetings, but it gave a panoramic view of the financial crisis.
Isisis is right about the distraction.....thinking this about a modification being dangled like a carrot in front of our eyes. We have all by now learned how to stepdance, quicktime and play the fiddle simultaneously. After going back through some old postings, freedomwon, you were writing about quiet titles at the end of last year. What did you discover, and what are your current thoughts on this? I know they vary state to state, but they seem to be one of the few tools available. May we all come out of this car wreck, standing on our two feet.
 

freedomwon

LoanSafe Member
Oct 30, 2010
2,794
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California
Hi Annie Mac,

What I learned about quiet titles in Ca. is that in order to file a Quiet Title, I must have a pending action against my lender. So, in other words I would need to file suit & take my lender to court. In addition, courts in Ca. require a bond be posted that is equal to the remaining balance owed on the loan in question. I haven't found a way to circumvent that; however, if I remain in the home, get foreclosed upon, and then get served with an unlawful detainer, I could file an answer & ask that the case be moved to a different division of the court & counter complain with quiet title in my answer to the court. But I'm not certain how or if I would have to file a bond with the court. That's still the big mystery to me.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,651
204
63
North bay
Hi Fightforit,

I disputed the debt back when BAC switched to Bofa. When they didn't respond I wrote again starting with "Your lack of response indicates to me we are in agreement regarding the questionable nature of this "debt"" and later,

Please provide a written affidavit under penalty of perjury from someone who has first hand knowledge of the facts that stipulates the following:

a) The debt is valid and no discharge has occurred on this debt.
b) No tax credit was received for the discharge (if any) of the debt.
c) The debt has not been paid in full when the loan was securitized.
d) That Bank of America, N.A. has the authority to collect the debt on behalf of
CWABS 2006-SD2.

This is BTW is a personalized version of Freedomwon’s brilliant dispute of debt letter.

Again no reply from Bofa. It seems to take two to resolve a dispute.

I’m continuing to look for a trail to the money, i.e. see if it is possible to find proof that the debt was satisfied and consider quiet title but not necessarily counting on that. I’ll grant you it feels a bit creepy trying to negotiate after all I’ve found out but the goal is keeping my home. The only option I won’t consider is giving up or selling. I won’t leave voluntarily, if nothing else works I’ll see if Occupy will come out.

Any ideas or suggestions?
 

freedomwon

LoanSafe Member
Oct 30, 2010
2,794
23
38
California
isisis - I believe BofA has answers to those questions sitting in their financial records somewhere. (A,B,C,D). I would imagine the answer can be found within a highly specialized department within the bank. (Certainly not records that are made public). BofA employees are kept insulated with many layers of corporate protection it seems. If you find yourself back in court, perhaps you can incorporate this line of questioning as required "burden of proof" from BofA. I don't see any other way to get answers to those questions. (I designed it that way on purpose)! he he he

isisis - Did I show you "the plan" on what can be done once the trustee sale takes place? If not, let me know & I'll post. I'm not giving up & I'm not selling either!
 

fightforit

LoanSafe Member
Aug 31, 2010
247
2
18
Maybe I’m just putting a positive spin on my paranoia but if I hadn’t gotten aggressive, hadn’t learned the law and my rights I wouldn’t still have my home and I think the more we learn about what’s happening and the more we speak up the better our chances are of keeping our homes.

isisis - your words in this post say it all and should be printed on a poster and given out to everyone in this fight.

Educating ourselves is the key.

Watch and read everything and concentrate on our own States laws and Court cases.
Let your AG know what is going on. Pressure them if they are not of the few that are fighting the settlement.
Also make yourselves aware of what is happening in your own neighborhood.
Check out all your neighbors mortgages info on your Registry of Deeds website. Watch the Public Notices in your local paper.
Do you know how many of them are are in this battle too?
Most will not share this info until you let them know you too are in this.
It is public info.
Share your knowledge with whomever will listen. Try to educate them about MERS if they have it on their mortgage.
We have power in numbers people.
Share the knowledge.
It will not only help others but it will help you.
 

stephanies

LoanSafe Member
Jan 24, 2011
124
0
0
isisis... I have discovered this past week, that if you are serious about saving your home, then you need to be on some of these other sites out there that have attorneys and experts in foreclosure defense commenting and bringing the community up to date about what is going on, and what defenses are working... I am a bit frustrated that this forum is having us all advise each other, when we have no experience doing such, and there are other sites out there that are educating consumers on what their rights are, and what resources are available to save their homes.... I have learned more from those other sites this past week, than I have learned from this forum in the past 8 months... that is just my opinion, but I am now invigorated about what I have discovered on these other sites.. some of which list ALL of the cases out there by state, and lender on foreclosure and bankruptcy matters...here is my two cents, which I can empathize with you as I am in the same boat as you, but several months behind in the timeline....from everything that I have read, to show your hand with a QWR BEFORE you have the protection of the court in getting the other party to HAVE to give you that information, you risk them not having to tell you all that you need, or give them the time to cover their tracks and make sure that all paperwork is in order before they are confronted with having to give you a mod... it appears that the banks in most circumstances are not doing mods unless its in their best interests to do so ( equity in the home, clouded chain of title or note issues that a mod would fix, or public pressure to do so... ) OR, if a court makes them do so.....I believe that the best use of your information that you have gathered is to present it to a court, and get the judge to order the other party to show a legal chain of title and standing....I have read about too many instances of when the other side has to do this in court, and can't, then they are more than willing to give you a modification to make things all better...sorry to be a downer, but this is a chess game, and you need to anticipate the other sides every move and every possible option, and you need to do so with the court's oversight, if you want it to be a fair fight....
 

Tarin Myhairout

LoanSafe Member
Oct 31, 2011
320
3
0
Twin Cities, MN
Distraction = Bob and Weave; but not modification!

Isisis:

Finally, I found they were wiley enough to not quite give me a mod yet but to distract me with “a little more paperwork†– so I don’t know about this….,,,
(Emphasis mine)

I think you have just named the latest in a long line of tactics.

After all my wailing and gnashing of teeth, I was contacted on Friday by both my FreddieMac guy, AND the new person to whom I am supposed to send my new application. They began by saying "...since you are in a redemption state, we are able to rescind the sale (Me, gasping for air, finally! this is gonna be over, I can have a life again, etc., etc)"

Then, I get the email with the new HAMP APP, and a letter stating, "...as we discussed (NOT), you must qualify for a modification before we rescind the sale. "

So, what did I get, exactly? Nuthin'. Our redemption period runs to April 18th, 2012.

I can predict with almost 100% certainty, how this is going to play out, ( except I won't let it).

This is the scene as written by the bank:

1. We send in the Hamp app.
2. They lose it, or don't receive all the supporting docs.
3. Time goes by, and they finally do find all the docs, and then sit on the file for as long as they can.
4. They run the redemption clock nearly out, and then either:
a. Improperly deny the application, or
b. Offer a modification that makes no sense to accept.

In either a. or b. above, the redemption period has run, and we are finis. They are going to argue that they took the extraordinary customer service step to let us re-apply for HAMP after the foreclosure sale; but regretfully, we just didn't qualify, and now time is up.

I know we qualified the first time around and they foreclosed anyway, so why would look for a different result this time around? They wouldn't reveal the basis for their earlier decision; but had they followed the rules, this mod would have been done months ago.

Probable areas of 'error'
:

Income calculation
Late fees
attorney fees and costs**

** Is going to be the big one, because I am sure they are going to try to charge me for the wrongful foreclosure costs and fees.

The new HAMP application contains an agreement that " I will accept the modification that is offered." That makes it sound really non-negotiable, because it is coupled with another statement that the loan is not modified until the trial payments are complete, and the counter-signed docs are received.

Even under the most optimistic scenario, there is not time for us to make three trial payments before the redemption period runs.

Isisis, you are right to be worried and frustrated about this. You're also right that this is another distraction. BUT, since you have figured out the name of the game, BOA won't get away with it, and neither will US BANK.

Thanks for your insight.

Tarin

ps. Lest we just seem too paranoid, hop over to Estela's latest post, Chase Executive Escalated Claim...

After making a $5,000 'contribution' the bank kept, monthly payments the bank wouldn't accept, a promise to rescind the foreclosure sale, dismissal of the UD proceeding, and over three weeks of 'account maintenance ' all under the watchful eye of the Iowa AG; it appears that the house file is back in the Collections Department now!! The bank rep even asked a supervisor about the file, and then called back with with a snide comment about Estela living rent-free for so long; and demanding to know what they were going to do about it.

You and me? We are a long way from a loan modification.
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
549
61
28
Oregon
Well, if things go really south Isiss, we can all come camp out at your house and have a bagel party! Bagels are as good a defense as anything.
Stephanie, you are absolutely right about the other sites...especially Mandelman, ssgoldstar, Max Gardner. I am reading Fool's Gold, the story behind Chases' role in this. It is important to understand how they think. One of the most important pieces of information is John Stuart, who says to toss out everything you think you know about this. This is a different bank than we grew up with, and certainly different than just recently when we signed those original deeds of trust.
Freedomwon, it seems in Oregon that there is a one year period of waiting to allow any parties to come forward after one files a Quiet Title. Most of the cases are from the turn of the century, and it was originally to take care of mining claims, grazing rights, etc. There have been a couple of most recent cases which don't seem to have a solid pattern from the court. The good thing is, though, that in a non-judicial state, it does put things into the court system. So far, there is no need to have an action from the other side, and I have not yet come across the requirement to post the money upfront for what is owed on the note. Still researching.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,651
204
63
North bay
Stephanies,

I value your insight and I am likely to end up in court. I think sending QWRs through out the process is helpful and if they don’t provide the information requested that’s helpful too because it’s a RESPA violation which can be part of a wrongful foreclosure action.

I find the law fascinating; there are even some lawyers I like but there are others who think the law belongs to them – like the Medieval Church that kept the bible in Latin so the laity couldn’t read it. I think the law belongs to us all so I’ll learn as much as I can and interview a ton before retaining one – and subsequently driving him/her crazy.

I do spend time on other sites - most often Living Lies but your input explained why this is my favorite site; because I felt like you told me that because you cared and that was really nice. This site feels like community, like I’m not fighting this alone. A support system in the midst of something as devastating as foreclosure can’t be overvalued.

This isn’t just about our houses, this is becoming a social movement where people are seeing we need to work together to bring change.
Sometimes awful things have to happen so that we exercise the muscles of democracy.. It forces us to become involved in government and in keeping justice real. Who is more equipped than homeowners to understand the importance of fairness and equity?

On a personal level, I am reassured to find that decades of comfort haven’t rendered us complacent. My own fears of homelessness were dwarfed by the sacrifices I saw the people of Egypt make in their ongoing struggle. Then I was wonderfully surprised to see our often self-indulgent culture recognizing the power of our right to protest and oppose injustice and their willingness to suffer for that essential aspect of representative government.

I think those of us who are computer literate and have the sort of minds that don’t object to weaving through the legal intricacies should do what we can to make what we learn accessible to people that are overwhelmed and need to know how to fight back. That knowledge is power. I believe it should be free

Freedeomwon,
As for the location of the information, yes, much of it would be within Bofa where it could only be brought to light by hackers (Julian Assange where are you? Is there a Bofa Bradley Manning?) or legal discovery but the other end of the transaction – it can’t all have stayed there – that’s the trusts.

Neil Garfield has an interesting perspective on our relationship to the investor. He calls us not borrowers but issuers; that’s according to his view of the rules in a PSA and secruritization and suggests we work with them. Just now I was talking with a forensic expert who works with Garfield and he said they think the pools never made it into the trusts at all. I’m still trying to get him to explain the ramifications of that.

As always, Freedomwon, you will have a pleasant, tactical maneuver for us but I can’t help trying to second guess…something preemptive to de-incentivize eminent foreclosure…clouded title or something that would void the sale itself? On the edge of my seat.

Thanks for the bagel invite Annie Mac, make mine onion with lox cream cheese and capers!
 

nugirl

LoanSafe Member
Jan 24, 2011
125
0
16
Los Angeles, California
Hi Annie Mac,

What I learned about quiet titles in Ca. is that in order to file a Quiet Title, I must have a pending action against my lender. So, in other words I would need to file suit & take my lender to court. In addition, courts in Ca. require a bond be posted that is equal to the remaining balance owed on the loan in question. I haven't found a way to circumvent that; however, if I remain in the home, get foreclosed upon, and then get served with an unlawful detainer, I could file an answer & ask that the case be moved to a different division of the court & counter complain with quiet title in my answer to the court. But I'm not certain how or if I would have to file a bond with the court. That's still the big mystery to me.
Hi Freedomwon,
Can you explain about the different division of the court, please?
 

Tarin Myhairout

LoanSafe Member
Oct 31, 2011
320
3
0
Twin Cities, MN
More than one way to quiet that title?

Freedomwon;

But I'm not certain how or if I would have to file a bond with the court.
Would you have to file a bond if you filed a lis pendens, not on a quiet title action, but some other claim; say under consumer protection/ deceptive trade practices, or similar?

That is my strategy.

As we near the end of the Redemption Period here, (remember, I missed the sale date because they told me they weren't foreclosing) I am going to file my notice of lis pendens with the county recorder. The corresponding action is going to be in District Court and calls title of the property into question, but it won't be a quiet title action, it is going to be a deceptive trade action. (Important here is that MN has a Private Attorney General statute which authorizes treble damages and encourages punitive damages in deceptive trade cases.)

Just another research thought: You can often find a shortcut to things like bond requirements by looking at Court Rules - these are not found in statutes, but are separate things published in Practice Guides. They are supposed to be just procedural rules, but are often used to kick non-lawyers out of court for violating them. Those rules cut to the chase about just what you have to do in each type of claim.

It is important to know the unpublished rules, too; those informal 'customs' that are unknowable to regular people who don't hang around courtrooms. It may be worth asking a legal aid attorney about them. For nothing more than the cost of a lunch, you can get a lot of good procedural information. Goddess knows how we would ever have time to do it, but volunteering at a Legal Aid office can give you a great legal education.

Freedomwon, you are already a great researcher and have a gold mine of information. Have you shopped it to any Law Firms who would take your securitization fraud case on a contingency basis? You have already done all the work! And it seems to me that CA is a goldmine of similarly situated plaintiffs. One good win is all they need to create a full -employment- for- the- firm plan.

Regards,

Tarin
 

freedomwon

LoanSafe Member
Oct 30, 2010
2,794
23
38
California
Hi Freedomwon,
Can you explain about the different division of the court, please?
Hi nugirl - I'm still working on studying this. The way aI understand it, If you have a couple different cases going on with the courts, there's a way you can basically have it consolidated & heard all in one division of the court. That's where I was heading with that idea.