2do Mortgage - Ocwen PHH NewRez Nationwide Direct Inc

[CYJ]

After many loan transfers from a mortgage company to another, Ocwen offered us a loan modification 10 years ago. The loan modification was only for the 1st mortgage. We got a debt cancellation form as well from them. We have been paying them since then and now Ocwen is PHH/RewRez. Since then, we never knew about what really happened to the 2nd mortgage since Ocwen never collected the loan. We are now trying to sell the house and it looks like that there is a lien on the 2nd mortgage with Nationwide Direct Inc and according to NDI, Ocwen wrote off the 2nd mortgage. NDI now tells us that we owe the loan. There is no documentation that Ocwen, or PHH/New Rez can produce about the 2nd mortgage.

The loan does not show in our credit reports. NDI has not made any attempt yet in collecting the loan.

The property title points to the first mortgages for the house. The mortgage company already sold the mortgages to another company.

Any ideas on how to solve this? How do I really know if there is a lien? Why the loan modification did not include the 2nd mortgage? Is the loan tied to the mortgage? Is there a statute of limitations? The house in question is in Florida.

 

[Jzone]

After many loan transfers from a mortgage company to another, Ocwen offered us a loan modification 10 years ago. The loan modification was only for the 1st mortgage. We got a debt cancellation form as well from them. We have been paying them since then and now Ocwen is PHH/RewRez. Since then, we never knew about what really happened to the 2nd mortgage since Ocwen never collected the loan. We are now trying to sell the house and it looks like that there is a lien on the 2nd mortgage with Nationwide Direct Inc and according to NDI, Ocwen wrote off the 2nd mortgage. NDI now tells us that we owe the loan. There is no documentation that Ocwen, or PHH/New Rez can produce about the 2nd mortgage.

The loan does not show in our credit reports. NDI has not made any attempt yet in collecting the loan.

The property title points to the first mortgages for the house. The mortgage company already sold the mortgages to another company.

Any ideas on how to solve this? How do I really know if there is a lien? Why the loan modification did not include the 2nd mortgage? Is the loan tied to the mortgage? Is there a statute of limitations? The house in question is in Florida.

Was this a bankruptcy case? Or did you simply stop paying the second mortgage? 10 years is a long time to go without realizing that the 2nd is still a valid lien.

First thing you need to do is check with your county register of deeds and see who holds the lien. Mortgages/liens can be assigned/transferred and that's probably what happened.

When loans are "written off", it simply an accounting term for the bank. They don't plan on getting the money, so its written off. However, there is still a lien that secured the loan and that is where the problems begin. Liens don't simply go away if you don't pay.

The bad news is that now NDI knows you want to sell and have no incentive to offer you a settlement.

Start by seeing who actually holds the lien and start negotiations with them. Then find out if there are statue of limitations for real property in Florida. Im in a similiar situation in Michigan, but I went through chapter 7 bankruptcy. The debt is gone, but lien was sold to a debt collector. In Michigan there is no SOL on real property. The lien holder can hold out for as long as they want, hope that you will eventually sell and then collect.

Good luck.

 

[DRB]

I have a similar situation, in fla bought at the top in 2005.. modified our 1st in 2009 through HAMP, we were 2 days from a sale date and through a forum here that gave exact contact numbers I was able to get a real person to help … our 2nd that was one of those crazy countrywide 15yr balloon 8.875 interest loans did a modification bringinf the payment from 835 to 1222. We were under water at the time so concentrated on 1st which we have not missed one payment. The CW loan was sold to BofA then to Greentree and then I guess to Nationstar as Veripro Solutions started to call. As thiigs were looking better in 2014 I accepted a payment plan to keep second at bay even though equity was still not enough to warrant a foreclosure..been making stead monthly payments with Veripro who at different times even offered to settle original loan was 104k and they offered 30k in 2015 we were still getting back on our feet from total and complete destruction from the "great recession" and could not do that but were told were good as long as we keep making payment plan payments. Now the market is back and we are getting ready to refi as we have the equity now, Veripro now hits us with your loan has been sold to a trust and wants original loan terms. I was told by supervisor this loan was charged off and sold.. We were offered 79k to settle this in 2/2019 now they just handed my lender doing our refi a pay off amount of 155k our principal balance was 92k and they tacked on interest of 63k. So unless they negotiate that we will be going from a 126k 1st with 15yrs left to pay to a 280k 30yr ...Our home is worth 325 pimped out but with us not doing anything and selling it as is will be less...My question is ...we have a FL 50k homestead exemption should we just do a Ch 13 sell it and be made whole so we can FINALLY start over or try to negotiate for a lower settlement amount than the 155k payoff. Trust that owns it is BCMBI trust I've googled them and they are ghosts with an address in condo in Miami. Are we going into round 2?

 

[just_me]

JMHO, I think these ghosts (zombie debt), in certain States, are barred by the SOL. But if you sell or refi you are, by virtue of the original loan contract, going to pay off the lien for its full terms. This is why silent seconds merely wait. Would be wise to address the elephant in the room with a quiet title based on SOL prior to selling or refinancing in this case. It's the only other way of getting a lien release without negotiating terms. (Realize the second is now non-negotiable in this case - they want full amount.)

Usually a loan is written off after 6 months non-payment. The SOL is going to run from the date of non-payment. Most States have an SOL of 5 or 6 years, some have never. But if substantial time runs, or there is no SOL, one could also argue laches and waiver amongst other things. I would do this just because I wanted to save some money. I would do it because of the fraud surrounding the mortgage or liens. If there's nothing worth proving or it no longer matters, hand it over and move forward. Otherwise, get an attorney on it. Your mileage may very according to State. Florida is probably a bit easier with a wealth of case law and foreclosure defense attorneys willing to pursue quiet title claims.

 

[just_me]

CX: I would NOT do this just because I wanted to save some money. I would do it because of the fraud surrounding the mortgage or liens. (or servicing)

 

[DRB]

CX: I would NOT do this just because I wanted to save some money. I would do it because of the fraud surrounding the mortgage or liens. (or servicing)

The "new client BCMBI Truct" recorded the original note as assigned to BCMBI Trust from Countrywide on 9/10/2019...how can they record a note that was charged off and sold numerous times. I have my title person doing a search to see if a charge off is shown, I have asked Veripro for a copy but nothing yet. I have offered them 69,000 and have spoken to our wonderful Eric about helping me get this done. What are chances they will get 1st to allow a foreclosure as it is a modified loan and we have not missed a payment. We have been late but not missed.

 

[DRB]

Well they did not take our offer of 69k and are still asking for our financials..whats up with that, why do they want our financials. They are also not cooperating with the VOM to our refi guy as we missed payments when they stopped sending our coupons...big mistake I know but paid 2 at once along with february

 

[just_me]

DRB- A charge off is not the same as a lien release. The lender can still sell the loan and usually does. However, given the buying and selling of these 2nd mortgages, I would want some proof of ownership - not just a debt collector's calculation of the payoff. That, in itself might be a negotiating point. Also, they need financials to run a loan mod or make an offer. Allegedly. It depends on your level of trust and how badly you need their cooperation. Anything you volunteer may be used against you. So. Too bad they won't accept a short payoff. Also, likely they don't have the note but do you want to ruin your credit in a BK lawsuit to find out? (Otherwise a 50K homestead exemption could cram it down.)

 

[DRB]

I asked that and they sent me a copy of the new recorded assigned note fr countyrwide to BCMBI trust dated 11/19 along with the limited power of attorney from BCMBI to Nationstar/mr.cooper to service also dated 11/19 and he also sent a revocable limited power of attorney from Nationstar/mr.cooper to veripro dated 1/18...what about the countrywide to BofA and BofA to Greentree. Our original payment arrangement stated Veripro was representing them. Should I press and do a full on QWR letter...would that poke the bear. I am still negotiating but they keep asking for financials, I am not afraid of what they'll see they will be able to get it done but would be really tight at their new payoff of 155k compared to their offer last year of 93k. would it help if I offered to go through Mr.Cooper for the refi? Thank You for your help. I also spoke with the CFPB not a whole lot of help, I should file a complaint due to them NEVER sending me anything stating accrued interest the entire time I was paying Veripro and now all of a sudden it appears but again do not want to piss off someone I am wanting to negotiate with. All of my statements and previous payoffs only showed principle balance and the payoffs did state a satisfaction and lien release would be recorded, also the previous pay off letters were always good for 90 days where this one was good for 20 days. I feel like I have a gun to my head.

 

[DRB]

Looks like Wilmington Savings Fund Society is the trustee for BCMBI trust ...Does that mean anything? Should I go direct to them and circumvent Veripro. Man how many hands touch these loans...figures it's a Delaware company..whole state is a bunch of banksters... thanks good'ole Uncle Joe

 

[OneHugeMess]

Looks like Wilmington Savings Fund Society is the trustee for BCMBI trust ...Does that mean anything? Should I go direct to them and circumvent Veripro. Man how many hands touch these loans...figures it's a Delaware company..whole state is a bunch of banksters... thanks good'ole Uncle Joe

Wilmington Savings Fund is the trustee for a lot of these new Wall Street Schemes. They probably purchased your loan for pennies on the dollar, and are hoping they can extract money from it whenever the home is sold, foreclosed, or they get the loan "modified" with payments restarting again. Wilmington is not the investor, but more of a shell bank, to hold all the assets.

For Years, I've had a Countrywide HELOC that was originated in 2006, and was held in MERS for "Countrywide Bank, FSB". Supposedly, First National Bank of Arizona was the Investor. But, at other times, I've been told Bank of America or Countrywide Bank is the owner.

Back in November of last year, I received a letter from Real Time Resolutions saying they were transfering the servicing of my loan back to "Bank of America Home Loans". The thing is, they had never contacted me once before by phone, email, or letter - and it was the first time I've ever heard from them. I've also not received a call since like 2010, about this loan.

My 2nd Mortgage is completely, 100% underwater, with not a single dime of equity from the first to cover it. I've long assumed they have just written mine off as a total-loss, but I don't even care. I have zero intention on ever repaying it. I do not even receive statements or payment coupons anymore.

 

[DRB]

Well we have equity now after paying our 1st faithfully for the last 15 years, should I worry they will try to foreclose, I am working hard to get my ducks in a row to refi as I said they want 155k up from 93k that Veripro offered us last year, met a lender this afternoon and it looks like most we can give them is 105k do you think they will bite.... home is worth 316 per Zillow our 1st balance is 125k

 

[Bengalmomma]

DRB - did anyone ever respond to you? We are in the exact same boat and would like to get out of the claws of Veripro and NEVER hear from them again!!

 

[smileback1953]

Hello, I'm new here but been thru with these banks for past 10 years. My situation is similar to OHM, Countrywide 1st, then 2nd transferred in process of pod and didn't complete 2nd- which kept low profile, after backing out on their offers years ago. moving forward, now 2nd wanted more than original amount (similar t

 

[smileback1953]

oops... sorry...just using one hand, and mistakenly press a key.... Anyways, going back to DRB's concerns, if I can give you my 2 cents unsolicited advise, this is what you need to take into consideration:

1. in a notebook or your Notes, create your Financial Picture, like Net worth = Assets( cash, 401ks, house value etc) -Liabilities (Mortgage/Credit/Student Loans etc) and arrive at either in the black (+) or in the re (-).
2. Income versus expenses ; Cash Reserves, and Career Status- Permanently employed, partial, set employed , unemployed.
3. What is your Short term 1 -5 years and Long Term 6-20 years, plan. for yourself or family?
4. Tie all these informations up, considering also the reason why you bough that house. Is it because its near your kid's school, or its potential to improve the property for your adult children. This may be a lot to consider, but its your life ad you should be in control and not the banks, which have been ruling most of our lives the past 10 years since Great Recession.

You'll be surprise its not only this problem with the bank will you solve but maybe others parts that may help you live balanced purposeful life. As others say, this is just a house- yet its important for you. I think we all deserve a slice of the "good pie" which the banks since the 2008 Great Recession has been partaking all for themselves, leaving most homeowners like us in an extreme disadvantaged positions. Maybe take your time. Maybe this Covid 19, ( though Im sorry for many of us affected the past 8 weeks), may just provide a long term solution and better regulation to keep the banks the they belong. But of course, its only you, who should take the driver's seat and do what you think is best for you and not what the bank wants you to do. I've been there seems "a gun pointing at you". Its a nightmare so maybe wake up and be in control this time. Good luck

 

[Ella]

I'm looking for contact emails or phone numbers to corporate office PHH mortgage . I'm tried of dealing with the run around . We have a SAM and sold our house . We also did some major renovations to our house which is deductable to the balance of the SAM value I have sent everything they have asked and still cant get an accurate payoff they keep asking for more or playing games.

 

[just_me]

I'm looking for contact emails or phone numbers to corporate office PHH mortgage . I'm tried of dealing with the run around . We have a SAM and sold our house . We also did some major renovations to our house which is deductable to the balance of the SAM value I have sent everything they have asked and still cant get an accurate payoff they keep asking for more or playing games.

They are holding the funds for as long as they can to collect interest?

Write a qualified written request regarding their non-compliance and for this money to be refunded to you promptly. Ask them to provide you with the correct legal name and contact of the responsible party too. The servicer is legally required to respond as long as you appropriately identify the account for the investigation.

 

[smileback1953]

OHM, Isis, Wanda, MT, and everyone else from Bagels and other forums,

I received 3 Assignments ordered online. I read your suggestion to check top of 1st page. Lo and behold, I noticed following:
1) The two assignments to BANA, signed by Beverly Brooks as MERS Asst Secretary 0n 02/12 for 1st Lien Original Balance and by Bud Kamyabi on 3/13 for 2nd Lien Original Balance DO NOT have the date, and page/book# on top and NOT notarized

2) The 2013 Assignment to my current mortgage servicer is notarized, and signed by BANA in 2013 for 1st Lien original Bal

What do these MEAN? Maybe you guys, who have 2nds BEFORE CONSIDERING to settle w/ your mortgage servicer should check your Assignments, see if there is PATTERN of wrongdoing. Knowledge is power. This group is giving us that. THANKS

But we need to UNIFY, as what you said. We need to ACT FAST before its too LATE, and get this Foreclosure Tsunami AGAIN.

We may individually have mortgage concerns, but our COMMON DENOMINATOR is that "BANKS DECEIVED/ CONNED us all".

They said, "you can't make the same mistake twice. The second time you make it, it's no longer a mistake --- It's a CHOICE".

The 1st time we allowed it because we didn't know. Now that we do, allowing further consequences of the 2008 GR's quick fix & settlements by Senate/Congress, which banks DID NOT honor, becomes a CHOICE> It's now up to us to allow it or NOT>

Prior to March 2020, my family thought we've endured enough from banks, judge, smart lawyers. We chose our health/ "sanity". We're willing to JUST GIVE IN & be foreclosed. Years of legal battle, decimated our 401k, created extreme toll on my health/ weakened immune system and got me infected by Coronavirus. Up to now, we take more vitamins, organic/ herbal for respiratory/digestive detox to increase immunity. We've improved Emotional Quotient (EQ) thru therapy to reduce stress.

Coronavirus seemed to be simple winter cough/cold/flu-like symptoms. But difficulty breathing/swallowing, dizziness, chest pains, extreme fatigue, heavy sweating, abdominal pains are so debilitating. CPAP I used for sleep apnea saved me, from further hospitalization. Now I'm here discovering all "these". We hope, this time to find some RESOLUTIONS that may not only help ppl here to KEEP their homes, but ALSO help every RESPONSIBLE Americans, to afford housing with a sustainable loan.

 

[moretrouble]

In 2006, I obtained a HELOC loan from a defunct company, the loan was quickly sold to HSBC and securitized into one of its 2006 HELOC trusts and I had all the investor reports (used to be available on HSBC website). HSBC was my servicer and master servicer of the trust. I stopped paying in 2009, HSBC promptly charged -off my HELOC loan, nver bothered to collect because they made a bundle on the deal (the trust closed in 2016, they were charging 13% on average and paying 6%). HSBC sold my loan to at that time Greentree for $300 on a 50K balance (reported in Greentree 10K). WAC (Walter bought Greentree) then became Ditech, Ditech went bk, NewRez bought Ditech for dirt cheap (also bought Shellpoint).

Now Shellpoint sent me letter (and calling) claiming I owed them 50K and told me I would not be able to sell my house because of the lien on the house pressuring me to pay.

That's how Ocwen/PHH, NewRez make their money folks, buying distressed debts for pennies on the dollar then pressuring people to pay. I told them I would sell my house in 100 years and I will pay them then, by that time the house will be worth 10 millions (3% inflation) and the 50K will be half a percent of the house value (charged-off, no interest), vs. 10% of the value right now.

 

[moretrouble]

From Housing Wire:
"
The sell-off of Ditech Holding’s two main subsidiaries is now complete.

Just one day after selling Reverse Mortgage Solutions to Mortgage Assets Management, the nonbank formerly known as Walter Investment Management sold off its forward mortgage business Ditech Financial to New Residential Investment for $1.2 billion.

Specifically, New Residential acquired “select assets from Ditech Holding Corporation and Ditech Financial.”

According to New Residential, those assets included Ditech’s forward Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae and non-agency mortgage servicing rights portfolio, which carried an aggregate unpaid principal balance of approximately $62 billion as of Aug. 31, 2019."

62 Biilion of UPB for 1.2 billion. Approx 2 cents on the dollar. I'll pay them 3 cents on the dollar now ($1,500) , that gives them 50% return.